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  • FIRST POST
    • FOREVER21
    • By FOREVER21 10th Sep 17, 5:51 PM
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    FOREVER21
    Wood Burning Stoves
    • #1
    • 10th Sep 17, 5:51 PM
    Wood Burning Stoves 10th Sep 17 at 5:51 PM
    My neighbour has just had the latest" must have". echo friendly wood burning stove installed.
    I have read that there has been much research done about the emissions from these. Like most things you will always have experts with different views.

    But my personal vent is that we like to leave our bedroom windows partially open, as the house is well insulated and keeps it's heat.

    A couple of nights ago I went upstairs and the smell of burnt wood had drifted into the rooms.The neighbour obviously had lit his stove. It took ages for the smell to disperse and was still there when we went to bed.
    Now if I wanted to sleep with the smell of burning wood I could go camping but I do not want it in my home.
    Also I thought I lived in a clean air area and smoke was not allowed, but his chimney still sends out smoke, but it is presumably ok for this new generation of fires.

    Ok vent over I will just buy some scented candles, yes I know they will smell, but at least it will be a smell of my choice.
Page 1
    • Ectophile
    • By Ectophile 10th Sep 17, 9:19 PM
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    Ectophile
    • #2
    • 10th Sep 17, 9:19 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Sep 17, 9:19 PM
    DEFRA maintain a list of wood burning stoves that are approved for use in clean air zones. See https://smokecontrol.defra.gov.uk/appliances.php. You are allowed to use these with the fuels specified by the manufacturer - typically wood and/or smokeless briquettes.

    Unfortunately, when you first light the stove, it still produces smoke. Burning poor quality damp wood, or letting the stove run too cold also encourages smouldering.

    I'm note sure which is worse - wood smoke or the evil chemical cocktail that gets added to scented candles.
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 10th Sep 17, 11:12 PM
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    Gloomendoom
    • #3
    • 10th Sep 17, 11:12 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Sep 17, 11:12 PM
    I like the smell of wood smoke.
    Advice; it rhymes with mice. Advise; it rhymes with wise.
    • Gers
    • By Gers 11th Sep 17, 5:21 PM
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    Gers
    • #4
    • 11th Sep 17, 5:21 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Sep 17, 5:21 PM

    I'm note sure which is worse - wood smoke or the evil chemical cocktail that gets added to scented candles.
    Originally posted by Ectophile
    Evil chemical cocktail of smells in scented candles is MUCH worse!
    • Korkyb
    • By Korkyb 17th Sep 17, 9:09 PM
    • 165 Posts
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    Korkyb
    • #5
    • 17th Sep 17, 9:09 PM
    • #5
    • 17th Sep 17, 9:09 PM
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/12103003/Why-scented-candles-could-cause-cancer.html
    • Sledgehead
    • By Sledgehead 19th Sep 17, 3:22 PM
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    Sledgehead
    • #6
    • 19th Sep 17, 3:22 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Sep 17, 3:22 PM
    a link that says:

    Scientists have found some perfumed [with limonene] products in the home can create unhealthy levels of formaldehyde
    but pray, what do you suppose is in wood smoke? That article gives you a clue, should you venture so far as to read it:

    While it is already well known that limonene, which occurs naturally in plants, can degrade into formaldehyde ...

    A rather unimpressive sample of 20 people in a Nordic survey suggest short term wood smoke poses no threat - but you'd have to conclude the same thing about scented candle smoke. Note the article you referenced merely concluded some scented products contain limonene - not that they affect your health; that was NOT studied.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 19th Sep 17, 7:12 PM
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    teddysmum
    • #7
    • 19th Sep 17, 7:12 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Sep 17, 7:12 PM
    Our next door neighbours and those semi to them have woodburning stoves and we think the smell coming in is horrible.In winter it is horrid waiting for the dogs to come in from the garden as the air (can't be seen as smoke) makes your throat itchy or sore, causing a cough. (It's going to be worse this year as our older dog is quite wonky so walks slowly)


    We suspect that the second neighbour burns processed wood left from building work, as planks pile up, then suddenly disappear from the garden.


    I don't know what the legislation is, but powers would be unwillimg to check on anything as they only work 9 to 5, while the burner owners are out.
    • Sledgehead
    • By Sledgehead 20th Sep 17, 7:41 PM
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    Sledgehead
    • #8
    • 20th Sep 17, 7:41 PM
    Candles vs Wood Burner: which is worse?
    • #8
    • 20th Sep 17, 7:41 PM
    Evil chemical cocktail of smells in scented candles is MUCH worse!
    Originally posted by Gers
    Not according to this: Is my wood burning stove really killing me? What happened when I monitored my exposure to pollution

    You'll note that although both candles and stoves produce formaldehyde, the article concentrates on particulates. Why?

    ... particulates themselves “are a particularly dangerous type of pollution”, explained Jim Mills, the managing director of Air Monitors. “With gases, your exposure only lasts for as long as you are breathing in the gas. With particles, especially the very small ones, when you breathe them in, they are retained in your respiratory system.” They are linked to cardiovascular disease and birth defects.
    So Harry Wallop decided to measure particulate levels in his environs with a meter.

    Levels of particulates are measured in ug/m^3 (micrograms per cubic meter). Government guidelines suggest that a reading below 35ug/m³ is “low”. On the day Harry Wallop passed through a car-packed Trafalgar Sq on his bike, levels of PM2.5 (the smaller and most dangerous particulates) registered at 14ug/m^3.

    So what did stove-loving Harry Wallop find when he trialled a particulates monitor in his home?

    First, candles:

    My chichi candle selection managed to push the reading up to 35ug/m³, but only briefly as the wick tapered in the draughty kitchen, before settling down to 22ug/m³.
    Secondly the wood burner:

    After an hour of mine burning brightly, the dial settled between 41ug/m³ and 43ug/m³ in my sitting room.
    So that's:

    Candles : 22ug/m³
    Stove : 43ug/m³

    ie practically twice as much harmful particulate from stoves.

    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 20th Sep 17, 8:20 PM
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    sheramber
    • #9
    • 20th Sep 17, 8:20 PM
    • #9
    • 20th Sep 17, 8:20 PM
    Test would be done by leaving a meter to register the pollution over a period of tome.
    • Sledgehead
    • By Sledgehead 20th Sep 17, 10:21 PM
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    Sledgehead
    Well, obviously this is not a scientific result, but as a rebuttal of the notion that wood burners are better than candles, even in your own home (forget what it is doing to the atmosphere for the moment), it's better data than has been offered by those who assume the opposite.

    Sure, there are tests of the type you describe made by the manufacturers. They tell us all is well. Just like VW did with their diesel emissions.

    And talking of better research and those awful polluting diesels:

    2.4 times more PM2.5 pollution from domestic wood burning than traffic - BMJ, May 2015

    and don't forget:


    The European Environment Agency (EEA) estimates that PM2.5 caused 37,800 premature deaths in the UK in 2012
    and here's a real shocker:

    Few people who install wood stoves are likely to understand that a single log-burning stove permitted in smokeless zones emits more PM2.5 per year than 1,000 petrol cars and has estimated health costs in urban areas of thousands of pounds per year
    No, I'm afraid it's pretty clear that there is nothing environmentally friendly or even progressive about wood burners.
    Last edited by Sledgehead; 20-09-2017 at 10:31 PM.
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 22nd Sep 17, 10:23 PM
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    forgotmyname
    Stop breathing, stop farting and oh my do not eat anything. The pollution will kill you.

    After going to a bonfire the smell on our clothes the next morning is horrible.
    We started leaving clothes by the door and sticking them straight into the washing machine.

    What is the law on wood burners these days? Someone mentioned a 20 minute window where you can create smoke whilst getting the fire upto temperature.
    But as mentioned who will police it?
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • owen_money
    • By owen_money 23rd Sep 17, 6:33 PM
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    owen_money
    I've got a stove but don't live in a smoke free zone so can burn what I like. THB I only burn well seasoned wood, mostly kilned dried as poor quality wood will smolder and kill the flue. If the neighbours (on one side) dont like the smell they can move to a smoke free zone, wish they wood (would) as they are miserable gits The other side like the smell
    One man's folly is another man's wife. Helen Roland (1876 - 1950)
    • Gers
    • By Gers 24th Sep 17, 12:26 PM
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    Gers
    I was referring to the smell - not the effects!

    The evil smell from the cocktails of candles is much worse than the smell of wood burning - in my opinion!
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 24th Sep 17, 1:21 PM
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    teddysmum
    I was referring to the smell - not the effects!

    The evil smell from the cocktails of candles is much worse than the smell of wood burning - in my opinion!
    Originally posted by Gers


    You must have tried the wrong candles as some smell lovely. The smell of wood smoke from a bonfire is fine, but that from home stoves seems much more concentrated (enough to make me cough, choke or feel suffocated, at peak use time; the next two houses to one side of us has burners).


    One neighbour has been using thei rs for the last two nights,but their smell and smoke is much weaker than the other neighbour's (who has a building firm and probably disposes of wood this way).
    • Sledgehead
    • By Sledgehead 24th Sep 17, 1:55 PM
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    Sledgehead
    I've got a stove but don't live in a smoke free zone so can burn what I like. THB I only burn well seasoned wood, mostly kilned dried as poor quality wood will smolder and kill the flue. If the neighbours (on one side) dont like the smell they can move to a smoke free zone, wish they wood (would) as they are miserable gits The other side like the smell
    Originally posted by owen_money
    And we wonder why people can't just get along.
    • Sledgehead
    • By Sledgehead 24th Sep 17, 1:58 PM
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    Sledgehead
    I was referring to the smell - not the effects!

    The evil smell from the cocktails of candles is much worse than the smell of wood burning - in my opinion!
    Originally posted by Gers
    Smokers say the same - until they give up. Anyhow, apologies for introducing something as trivial as health effects. Tastes and fads are so much more important, dontcha agree?
    • Sledgehead
    • By Sledgehead 24th Sep 17, 2:01 PM
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    Sledgehead
    Stop breathing, stop farting and oh my do not eat anything. The pollution will kill you.

    After going to a bonfire the smell on our clothes the next morning is horrible.
    Originally posted by forgotmyname
    Don't quote me on this, but I suspect the difference is: you didn't have to go to the bonfire.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 24th Sep 17, 3:13 PM
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    Gloomendoom
    Surely, if you move into an area where the houses have chimneys, it isn't unreasonable to expect smoke to be emitted from them.
    Advice; it rhymes with mice. Advise; it rhymes with wise.
    • Sledgehead
    • By Sledgehead 24th Sep 17, 3:53 PM
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    Sledgehead
    Surely, if you move into an area where the houses have chimneys, it isn't unreasonable to expect smoke to be emitted from them.
    Originally posted by Gloomendoom
    London is full of houses with chimneys. And it was in 1956 when they passed the Clean Air Act. Presumably, as well as insisting only smokeless fuels be burned, you would have had people tear down their chimneys, yes? Cars have maybe 120mph on their speedometers. Presumably, according to you, given a car has 120 on its speed dial, it would not be unreasonable to drive it at such a speed? Do you wish I should continue, or have you seen tthe chink in your logic?
    Last edited by Sledgehead; 24-09-2017 at 3:56 PM.
    • Sledgehead
    • By Sledgehead 24th Sep 17, 4:05 PM
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    Sledgehead
    Aching for an anachronism
    Here's some amusing stuff for all the slickers who so dearly love their modern life, they feel the need to connect to the past by burning stuff as if they were Ray Mears:

    When families in developing countries burn wood and dung in their homes for cooking and warmth, the fires produce levels of pollution that lead to the premature deaths of about 2 million people each year, more than either malaria or tuberculosis.


    This disturbing news is discussed in a 2012 interview with Dr. Kirk R. Smith, a member of the National Academy of Sciences and Professor of Global Environmental Health at the University of California at Berkeley.



    Dr. Smith has spent decades studying the health effects of indoor air pollution due to biomass burning on women and children in developing countries.


    Dr. Smith notes that there are parallels between the dangers of cigarette smoke and wood smoke. “Most people recognize that the worst thing you can do is stick burning stuff in your mouth. The second worst thing is to have burning stuff inside your house…”

    According to Smith, “A fire in the kitchen, if you’re cooking a meal, produces about the same pollution per hour in a typical house as a thousand cigarettes burning. So, if you think about a thousand cigarettes burning inside your kitchen, it’s not surprising that there are significant health effects. The big difference is that children and babies don’t smoke, but they are in kitchens and are also being exposed to the household pollution, so there’s a large impact on children.”


    - Families For Clean Air
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