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  • FIRST POST
    • MrDilligaf
    • By MrDilligaf 14th Aug 17, 8:57 AM
    • 25Posts
    • 20Thanks
    MrDilligaf
    Elite Management Midlands Ltd
    • #1
    • 14th Aug 17, 8:57 AM
    Elite Management Midlands Ltd 14th Aug 17 at 8:57 AM
    Hi all,
    I've read through the Newbies section so I'm just looking for clarification before I do anything else:

    I received my PCN stuck to my windscreen on 9th August after visiting a friends flat. I actually watched him do it, he waled straight through the car park and put the ticket on, without checking any other cars! Anyways...

    1 - I've checked and EMM Ltd are a member of BPA.

    2 - As it's a company car, I am appealing NOW, not waiting for the 21-26 days.

    3 - I will be emailing EMM (no on-line form to fill out on their website) the following:

    Dear Sir,

    Parking Charge Notice [mine]: Vehicle Registration [mine]

    I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by Elite Management Ltd (“EMM”) as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.

    You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why EMMs Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

    Given that EMM has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.

    Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.


    Yours faithfully,


    4 - EDIT - Provide my name and address so they can deal with me direct rather than DVLA / my employer.

    Thanks all,
    Paul
    Last edited by MrDilligaf; 14-08-2017 at 9:40 AM.
Page 2
    • MrDilligaf
    • By MrDilligaf 16th Sep 17, 5:12 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    MrDilligaf
    Oooh... that's quite strong!!

    Can they go down the Freedom Act thing? I did actually give them my name & address as the day to day keeper!

    So do I actually copy those people in on the email too?

    Thanks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Sep 17, 5:35 PM
    • 51,522 Posts
    • 65,134 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Can they go down the Freedom Act thing? I did actually give them my name & address as the day to day keeper
    No idea what you think it means. It just means they might send a Notice to Keeper to the Company so you need to stop them, NOW:

    As it's a company car

    So do I actually copy those people in on the email too?
    Yes of course, the thugs aren't going to cancel if just you are asking. They need to be leaned on.

    Oooh... that's quite strong!!
    They are ex-clampers, knuckle-draggers trying to scam you. Are you happy about that? You might choose to remove:

    You and your ilk are an embarrassment to your gutter-dwelling industry.
    Maybe replace it with this (I've changed 'registered keeper' to 'vehicle's keeper'):

    Dear Elite,

    The BPA tell me you were required to act under their Code of Practice at the time of the parking event. Where's my POPLA code and why are you denying the right of a vehicle's keeper to appeal, and suggesting that appeals cannot be considered without the driver's name, and telling me that appeals have to be based upon mitigation?

    This is all lies so I have copied in Mr Dunford (DVLA) and Mr Clark (BPA) to add weight to my right for a POPLA code to be provided in your rejection letter.

    Try again - POPLA code please.

    yours,


    Warn your company they might get a scam letter from a firm you have reported to the DVLA. Are they the car's owners or is it leased? If so, also warn the Lease company owners/fleet service, not to pay if they get a 'Notice to Keeper' letter because it's from a notorious ex-clamper firm who are denying you a right to appeal, and you've reported them to the DVLA.

    Warn them now NOT to pay Elite nor treat any letter as if it is a real penalty, and to pass it to you as the day to day keeper to continue your complaint.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 16-09-2017 at 5:38 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MrDilligaf
    • By MrDilligaf 26th Sep 17, 8:13 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    MrDilligaf
    Just an update:

    Emailed the above last week and as yet no reply.

    They have sent a letter to my company though, which I've told them not to pay.

    Thanks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 26th Sep 17, 11:33 AM
    • 51,522 Posts
    • 65,134 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Are your company up for writing one letter back that names you (full name and home address) as the lessee/keeper of the car (NOT SAYING 'DRIVER'!) and confirming that they have therefore transferred liability under Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012.

    That way they are removed from the equation (no more letters fro them) and you have been named as the keeper/lessee, and could then follow that with a reiteration of the fact you have appealed and are still waiting for a POPLA code.

    I would not suit and wait, I would do the above to cover all bases and force the PPC to deal with you.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MrDilligaf
    • By MrDilligaf 3rd Oct 17, 3:25 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    MrDilligaf
    Yes I am looking into that, they have sent me the initial letter from Elite.

    Shall I reply to Elite again, as per the above and reiterate that i am the day to day keeper of the car, sending them a copy of the letter they sent my employer?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Oct 17, 9:09 PM
    • 51,522 Posts
    • 65,134 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    No, I would ask your company to do that, even if you offer to pay the postage and write it yourself for the company to use!

    What's in it for them, they might ask? Why should they bother? Why can't you write in your name?

    Answer: To transfer liability and stop all letters coming to them, that's what. Protects their interests; some fleet/hire companies get sued who don't handle these properly. The letter you need them to send, discharges ALL liability for them.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MrDilligaf
    • By MrDilligaf 4th Oct 17, 9:49 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    MrDilligaf
    No, I would ask your company to do that, even if you offer to pay the postage and write it yourself for the company to use!

    What's in it for them, they might ask? Why should they bother? Why can't you write in your name?

    Answer: To transfer liability and stop all letters coming to them, that's what. Protects their interests; some fleet/hire companies get sued who don't handle these properly. The letter you need them to send, discharges ALL liability for them.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    They've sent them an email stating the above. I've not had any contact from them as yet, email or postal.
    • MrDilligaf
    • By MrDilligaf 5th Oct 17, 7:22 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    MrDilligaf
    Good news...
    Had an email tonight of Mr Clark and the ticket has been cancelled.

    Thank you everyone for your advice and support, greatly appreciated.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Oct 17, 8:35 PM
    • 15,510 Posts
    • 24,233 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Good news...
    Had an email tonight of Mr Clark and the ticket has been cancelled.

    Thank you everyone for your advice and support, greatly appreciated.
    Originally posted by MrDilligaf
    Glad it’s cancelled, but can you provide more detail please? Did Steve Clark just get involved as a result of you just copying him in on your letter/email to EMM, or has something more gone on in the background?

    There seems to be a bit of a gap in the storyline.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • MrDilligaf
    • By MrDilligaf 5th Oct 17, 9:21 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    MrDilligaf
    Of course.

    Steve Clarke intervened as he said he was very concerned about what Elite had replied with, so he asked me to give him a few days, which I did, and he emailed tonight to say he'd got the ticket cancelled. Delighted.

    I was prepared for a lengthy drawn out battle as I'd not received any further responses from Elite directly, and of course they'd gone to my employer who did respond saying I was the day to day keeper. Unsure if I will get anything from them now.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Oct 17, 8:03 AM
    • 15,510 Posts
    • 24,233 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Steve Clark is the decent face of the BPA and his interventions have always appeared to have been fair and as impartial as possible, given that he is working in a post funded by the parking sector.

    Of late his absence from the front end of dealing with complaints has been noticeable, especially when we’ve seen a few new faces attempting to justify anything a PPC is doing and responding to complaints in a rather antagonistic manner. Maybe Steve has decided they’re not up to the job and has got himself more involved again.

    Welcome back Steve Clark.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
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