Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Erinandi
    • By Erinandi 8th Jun 17, 9:18 PM
    • 15Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Erinandi
    Excel parking Cavendish Retail Park help
    • #1
    • 8th Jun 17, 9:18 PM
    Excel parking Cavendish Retail Park help 8th Jun 17 at 9:18 PM
    Sorry I know you all must be sick of newbies.....I have tried to read all sticky posts but am still getting confused and at the point of paying, but there is a little part of me that does not want to.

    So I got a notice to keeper. I know I did not drive the car that day as I was at work 75 miles away in Durham. I believe no ticket was bought. My first question is, is that an "unfair ticket"?

    I understand that I can say I was not driving but can they still pursue me as registered keeper? I can see that lots of cases been won at court level but what are the chances they will take me to court anyway. Excel seems to be reported here as better at winning etc

    After researching pofa it appears that excel may have gone against this? The parking happen on 9th May. Their issue date was 25th May. Does this mean that they can not hold me the keeper liable for driver?

    Tia
    Last edited by Erinandi; 08-06-2017 at 10:12 PM.
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Jun 17, 11:24 PM
    • 51,440 Posts
    • 65,043 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 8th Jun 17, 11:24 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Jun 17, 11:24 PM
    I understand that I can say I was not driving but can they still pursue me as registered keeper? After researching pofa it appears that excel may have gone against this? The parking happen on 9th May. Their issue date was 25th May. Does this mean that they can not hold me the keeper liable for driver?
    Yes, you are correct, they served that NTK too late. You were not driving and you CANNOT be held liable for the charge.

    I can see that lots of cases been won at court level but what are the chances they will take me to court anyway.
    Excel don't generally win ANY cases against posters here. A high chance of court. Even higher chance you will win.

    Excel seems to be reported here as better at winning etc
    Show me a list of cases they won against one of our posters who we coached?!! Hint - I can think of none.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Jun 17, 11:27 PM
    • 16,483 Posts
    • 20,637 Thanks
    Redx
    • #3
    • 8th Jun 17, 11:27 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Jun 17, 11:27 PM
    I may be wrong about this but I thought LAMILAD won twice in court against EXCEL for the same place ?

    so no idea where all these losses are, plus if you read pranksters blog today you will see they just lost 2 cases (3 in total) on appeal on this very point (keeper not the driver) , so their case against keepers just got a whole lot harder

    and in any case this one is ongoing at the moment there

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5594252
    Last edited by Redx; 08-06-2017 at 11:30 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Erinandi
    • By Erinandi 9th Jun 17, 1:32 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Erinandi
    • #4
    • 9th Jun 17, 1:32 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Jun 17, 1:32 AM
    Seemed to see on here that not many positive cases against excel posted as opposed to parking eye where people have posted more positive parking appeals. Now gone passed date of cheaper fine so ready to fight this.

    Do I use the pro froma from here or another site where I refuse to name driver and say I was at work and that to hold me against me they needed to have sent me the form before 14 days against Pofa?

    What evidence do I need to show I was at work? Have timesheet in excel but could fake? Could have signing in sheet in school but again how reliable is that?
    Last edited by Erinandi; 09-06-2017 at 1:46 AM.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 9th Jun 17, 9:27 AM
    • 1,162 Posts
    • 2,317 Thanks
    Lamilad
    • #5
    • 9th Jun 17, 9:27 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Jun 17, 9:27 AM
    Seemed to see on here that not many positive cases against excel posted as opposed to parking eye where people have posted more positive parking appeals.!
    I don't know what threads you're reading but they're the wrong ones.

    Maybe you're getting confused with the appeals process. Virtually no one wins an appeal to Excel whereas ParkingEye appeals can succeed at popla.

    In court it's a different matter - Excel almost never win whereas PE are difficult to beat in court.

    Read the NEWBIES thread and send the IPC appeal template. It will be rejected. You don't take up their offer of appealing to the IAS as it's a waste of time. Then you wait for the debt collection letters from BW Legal.

    You dont need to prove you were at work or anything else yet. Just follow the template where you will simply deny being the driver.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Jun 17, 7:09 PM
    • 51,440 Posts
    • 65,043 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 9th Jun 17, 7:09 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jun 17, 7:09 PM
    You are confusing appeals (people *lose*, because there is no appeal. So what?) and defences (people here win).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 10th Jun 17, 7:36 AM
    • 1,686 Posts
    • 3,086 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #7
    • 10th Jun 17, 7:36 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Jun 17, 7:36 AM
    What evidence do I need to show I was at work?
    You sign a Statement of Truth and ask the judge to take your statement as such. If he thinks you are telling the truth, great. If he thinks you are lying then he'll tell you so - in their peculiar way.

    The sheet would be there to support that you are telling the truth.

    Judges have a refined sense of getting to the truth so best tell it as it is.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • Erinandi
    • By Erinandi 12th Jun 17, 11:28 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Erinandi
    • #8
    • 12th Jun 17, 11:28 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Jun 17, 11:28 PM
    Another quick question. Have cut and paste the letter into their appeals section on website but there is a drop down box with reason. None of those reasons match because I was not even in the car! Which one do I use? That I was not aware of pcn?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jun 17, 11:47 PM
    • 51,440 Posts
    • 65,043 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 12th Jun 17, 11:47 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Jun 17, 11:47 PM
    Any choice that does not suggest you were driving.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Erinandi
    • By Erinandi 29th Jun 17, 11:58 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Erinandi
    Update****
    So today I got my reply. My appeal was rejected and I am assumed the driver. As previously said I was not the driver, I was at work 75 miles away in Durham. Here is the letter I got following cutting and pasting your letter. Where do I go next? What will they take as proof? I have my timesheet, but it is just an excel spreadsheet, though my manager signs it. I was signed into a school and had a meeting at a similar time which would mean it would have been impossible to get from where I was to the car park. Problem is the minutes are confidential due to the nature of my job, so could not share those. Signing in sheets at the office are just paper. I place a milage claim each month so will have some evidence that I was driving a different car that date which is signed by my manager. Guess I am asking what evidence will they actually accept?

    "We refer to your appeal against the above Charge Notice, which was received on the ******/2017. Please note that we are proceeding on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver of the vehicle on the date in question unless you are able to prove the contrary.
    Having considered the points you have raised and reviewed our records, we are unable to accept your appeal. Our main reason(s) for this decision are as follows:
    You have raised a number of points in your appeal which are not appropriate for us to deal with at this stage. Please note that, as members of the International Parking Community (IPC) it is necessary for us to evidence to the IPC that we have relevant authority to undertake enforcement activity at the site concerned and that our signs in situ are compliant in setting out the relevant terms and conditions of use. We will defend the points you have raised as appropriate should the matter proceed to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS) and/or Court. We have therefore dealt with the pertinent points in your appeal below.
    On the date in question you did not comply with the Terms and Conditions of parking by failing to purchase a valid P&D ticket. We can confirm that we have checked our records and are unable to locate any ticket purchased that either matches or resembles your VRM *********
    Further to your request for further images of your vehicle and your comments made regarding the Charge Notice not been affixed to your vehicle. We must advise that management of this site is conducted via Automatic Number Plate Recognition Cameras that take photographs of vehicles entering and exiting the car park and work in conjunction with the Pay and Display machines in situ. All tickets purchased will be recorded on our database so we can match our records against the vehicle registrations that entered on any day. Therefore Notices are issued via post to the Registered Keeper and we would not have any further images of your vehicle other than the entry and exit images which have been previously supplied.
    Whilst you have made a request under Principle 6 of the Data Protection Act 1998, unfortunately this does not mean that you can simply demand us to cease processing your information and you fail to explain or meet the requirements for a "section 10 Notice" within your letter and I will detail below the reasons why.In the first instance you may find it helpful to review the information on the Information Commissioners Office website at ************ Your request in principle can only be dealt with if the processing of information "causes unwarranted and substantial damage or distress" and you must outline this in your request which you have failed to do.
    We are registered with the ICO for the processing of data which relates to the enforcement and recovery of parking charges and in respect to you this related to the matter of a Charge Notice (CN). Ref ************* which was issued to a vehicle registration ************* on the ****************2017.
    We are satisfied that the Charge Notice has been issued correctly, and that sufficient attention was brought to you, the driver with regards to the Terms and Conditions enforced. In light of the aforementioned, your appeal is rejected. We will not accept any further appeals.
    What you should do next - Either:
    1. Pay the Charge Notice: In order to settle the Charge, the payment of £60 to reach us by ******2017 or £100 to reach us by *******2017 must be made. Failure to pay this charge within the stated times, may result in Debt Recovery Action being taken and further costs up to an additional £60 being incurred.
    Payments can be made online at*******] by following the links for "Pay Now", or over the phone by calling 0845 226 9138 by using a valid Credit or Debit Card. (If paying by Credit Card a surcharge of £1.00 will apply).
    OR:
    2. Appeal to the Independent Appeals Services (IAS):If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the IAS. In order to appeal, the IAS will need the following information (which is also contained in the subject header of this correspondence).
    Notice Serial No: *************Vehicle Registration Mark:***********
    Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this correspondence. Please visit ********* for full details on how to submit an appeal online.
    It is important you note that if you do make an appeal to the IAS, the reduced charge offered above will no longer apply and the full amount of £100 will be pursued if your appeal to the IAS is unsuccessful. You should also be aware that if a payment is made prior to an appeal being made to, or adjudicated by, the IAS AND this is accepted as Full and Final settlement against the CN, the appeal will automatically be dismissed and the matter will be deemed closed.
    It is important I also highlight that no further appeals will be accepted at this office; any such appeal must be made to the IAS.
    Please also note that further costs may be incurred should it be necessary for us to subsequently recover any outstanding charge using debt recovery and/or court action."
    Last edited by Erinandi; 30-06-2017 at 3:28 PM.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 30th Jun 17, 6:02 AM
    • 15,423 Posts
    • 24,121 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    They were guaranteed to reject your appeal. You could have proof you were on the moon, yet they would still, blindly, progress on the 'reasonable assumption that you were the driver'. I can't remember when I last saw an initial appeal being upheld by a PPC. There's no grey matter engaged in dealing with these things, don't make the mistake of believing there is.

    We do not recommend appealing to the IAS - read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3 for reasons why.

    So it's time to ride this out - you'll doubtless receive debt collector letters and likely see BWL Legal get involved. This may take a judge to sort out Excel - they're pretty litigious at present. They have 6 years to pursue this through the county court. If that happens we'll help you develop a defence. With a forum led defence you've got a greater than 90% chance of winning, based on current performance.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 30th Jun 17, 6:39 AM
    • 1,686 Posts
    • 3,086 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    You could write back to them and point out they are mistaken as you were definitely not the driver which you can prove in court.

    Tell them they must not share your personal details with any third party apart from their solicitors, as doing so amounts to a breach of the Data Protection Act. Add that if they wish to test their assertion that you were driving they must do so at court within 14 days and if they do pass on your details to a third party you will ask the DVLA to sanction them - as they have done a number of times.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • Ian011
    • By Ian011 30th Jun 17, 7:25 PM
    • 1,862 Posts
    • 1,055 Thanks
    Ian011
    Payments can be made online at ******* by following the links for "Pay Now", or over the phone by calling 0845 226 9138 by using a valid Credit or Debit Card. (If paying by Credit Card a surcharge of £1.00 will apply).
    Originally posted by Erinandi
    Since 13 June 2014 it has been illegal to offer a premium rate 0845 number for this type of enquiry. This is detailed in Regulation 41 of the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013, published by BIS.

    Additionally, failure to declare call costs alongside a premium rate 0845 number is a breach of Ofcom regulations in force since 1 July 2015.
    • Erinandi
    • By Erinandi 5th Aug 17, 8:36 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Erinandi
    Newest update
    Thanks for guiding me through this you guys have been a real help so far.

    I ignored the email I got and have this week got a "Notice of intended court proceedings" letter. Where do I go from here? I have a new deadline for action as 11 Aug. I will not be in the country at that point.

    If I write to them where do I need to send letter and what content do I need to put in? I can see they have quoted parking eye vs Beavis.

    Thanks again for your help.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Aug 17, 10:22 PM
    • 15,423 Posts
    • 24,121 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I ignored the email I got and have this week got a "Notice of intended court proceedings" letter.
    Who sent you the letter?

    If I write to them where do I need to send letter
    If we don't know who sent you the letter, how can we possibly answer this? What does the letter say in this regard?

    You have to provide far better information if you want accurate advice. Think about it!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Erinandi
    • By Erinandi 5th Aug 17, 11:19 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Erinandi
    Ok sorry. My head is totally battered by all this. The letter is from Excel was dated 28.7.17 but did not arrive until 2.8.17
    The email I got was my appeal rejection.
    Last edited by Erinandi; 06-08-2017 at 8:58 PM.
    • Erinandi
    • By Erinandi 6th Aug 17, 10:22 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Erinandi
    ***bump***
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Aug 17, 10:42 PM
    • 15,423 Posts
    • 24,121 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    You need to see what Excel's next move is. Is the letter you've received headed 'LETTER BEFORE ACTION/CLAIM', or just notification of an intention in this regard?

    If it's the former, the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 tells you how to respond to a LBA. If it's the latter see what happens next, no response to a notification of intention will make any difference.

    Come back if you do receive a formal LBA from either Excel or their Solicitors, BW Legal, or real court papers. There's nothing you can do to deflect them from any action they decide to take, short of a cheque in the post, or a landowner cancellation.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 6th Aug 17, 10:48 PM
    • 1,162 Posts
    • 2,317 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Usually, with Excel, the NICP arrives after or on the same day as the claim form (court papers) despite the 'deadline' they have set so expect that to arrive soon and start working on your defence.

    In your appeal did you state that you were NOT the driver? If not you should email them asap to state this fact and if they still proceed to a hearing without proof that you were driving then they are acting unreasonably and will be liable for extraordinary costs under CPR 27.14(2)(g)
    • Erinandi
    • By Erinandi 23rd Aug 17, 8:27 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Erinandi
    Thanks. Sorry for disappearing, we have just got back from holiday. I am certain that I said I was not the driver, will check but who should I email? Is there an address anywhere?
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

109Posts Today

1,547Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • I believe I can boldly go where no twitter poll has gone before https://t.co/HA0jC92gAK

  • OK I'm wilting to public pressure and there will be a star trek captain's poll at some point next week

  • I can get that. My order is 1. Picard 2. Janeway 3. Kirk. Too early to say where Lorca will end up (or would you? https://t.co/kawtCOe9RA

  • Follow Martin