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    • dave030445
    • By dave030445 26th May 17, 1:09 PM
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    dave030445
    Atos Home Visit
    • #1
    • 26th May 17, 1:09 PM
    Atos Home Visit 26th May 17 at 1:09 PM
    Just had my Home f2f with Atos She was a lovely English Nurse she seemed to really understand how my conditions affects me. It seemed to go really well but as ive read on these forums it can all go very wrong. Have to wait and see. I put this post in benefits and tax credits instead of here so sorry for the duplicate posts if someone can remove the other one please
Page 1
    • venison
    • By venison 26th May 17, 9:13 PM
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    venison
    • #2
    • 26th May 17, 9:13 PM
    • #2
    • 26th May 17, 9:13 PM
    All you can do now is wait and see, remember we only read about the bad cases and rarely the many good outcomes.
    Doomed I say we're all doomed.
    • OldMotherTucker
    • By OldMotherTucker 27th May 17, 11:01 AM
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    OldMotherTucker
    • #3
    • 27th May 17, 11:01 AM
    • #3
    • 27th May 17, 11:01 AM
    Just had my Home f2f with Atos She was a lovely English Nurse she seemed to really understand how my conditions affects me. It seemed to go really well but as ive read on these forums it can all go very wrong. Have to wait and see. I put this post in benefits and tax credits instead of here so sorry for the duplicate posts if someone can remove the other one please
    Originally posted by dave030445
    My illness is one that fluctuates greatly - many people around me would assume that there is nothing much wrong with me - I work, I walk, I drive, I 'look' fine

    I didn't even fill my forms in - for various reasons I couldn't - but the DWP contacted me after the deadline to ask if I wanted to procede with the claim. I said 'yes' and they agreed to an at-home assessment.

    By the time my assessment came round, I was actually 'weller' than I had been in a long time. All that I can remember from the day is that I had some minor joint pain and my knees were slightly swollen.No great shakes really - lots of people manage this level of pain and go about their daily lives without needing help.

    The Atos Nurse followed a very similar format to the form and I had loads of opportunity to talk about the problems I have, which I found much easier than trying to find the words to go on the form. Also there is the catch 22 that you don't apply for PIP/DLA unless you are at pretty much rockbottom but this is the worst time to put forward your case.

    The 1hr 40 mins was pretty gruelling though - and I will remember that for next time. I also felt, in a small way, that the Nurse was feeding me with additional information - I was surprised to get the mobility element but when I looked at the reasons I got the award, I see that I could have easily got a few more points to score the High rate, but like I said, after the first hour, I was tired and struggling to concentrate.

    6 days after my assessment, I got my 4 year award and the next day, it was paid into my Bank, backdated to the day I requested the forms.

    Although I've seen a huge improvement in the last 3 years, I am frequently reminded that I am still ill, and it's because of the extra help that I get, that I manage my illness better. I aim to get the high rate of mobility next time and am concentrating on collecting evidence NOW to support this claim next year when my next assessment is due.

    You only hear the bad stories on here - and I think that individuals who work for Atos are unfairly judged and lumped together. Trained and committed HCP's don't just turn rogue because they work for Atos!
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 27th May 17, 11:40 AM
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    Muttleythefrog
    • #4
    • 27th May 17, 11:40 AM
    • #4
    • 27th May 17, 11:40 AM
    You only hear the bad stories on here - and I think that individuals who work for Atos are unfairly judged and lumped together. Trained and committed HCP's don't just turn rogue because they work for Atos!
    Originally posted by OldMotherTucker
    I'm not terribly convinced by this. Sure there is a bias towards bad stories otherwise people probably won't be seeking advice. But I have contact direct and indirect with healthcare professionals who very clearly believe that working doing disability assessments for the DWP is the pits of the profession (a phrase you might hear me stealing from one nurse I know).. something you do only if you're desperate for money or are carp at your job or care little for patients. I think there have been similar claims elsewhere along these lines... whilst those driven out (coming to public attention) have come across as well intentioned HCPs. And it seems very clear there are institutional issues... it cannot be an accident for example that when claimants query whether the evidence has been properly studied in advance of their assessment it becomes clear it has not in large numbers of cases (I knew the chances were very high the HCP in my case would break protocol before I even saw her - she confirmed it whilst taking a private call on her phone!)... complaints tend to fall into very narrow channels implying wider failures rather than odd rogue HCP.


    So my view is trained and committed HCPs probably won't typically do this job.. precisely because they are professional. Think about it for a moment... you've spent years wanting to be a doctor or nurse or mental health specialist etc... you've dedicated time and money into training... and then you shift your focus from patient treatment and care and professional examination to what is put onto the table here for disability assessments (where I understand these companies even advise HCPs to refer to patients as customers instead). It is absolutely no surprise that we end up with the pits of the professions and for those well intentioned and retaining a professional outlook I expect the demands on efficiency and internal targets as well as training (which we have seen exposed for what it is by those undercover) and directives will leave them requiring significant shift of approach or resignation/dismissal. As a quick point... I have never in my life seen a professional of any trade be as disgusting in their 'greeting' to me or someone I was around as was the HCP to my wife... it is unthinkable that an HCP in the NHS would get away with that for long before attracting some serious career challenging complaint. It seems to me no accident that similar complaints seem fairly common... including one recently on here I note from a claimant who had a home visit with a relative in attendance.

    As another note... your assessment sounded like it lasted a lot longer than typical (twice the length of mine for reference and I claimed disablement in all activities I think.. and was well prepared to talk a lot..lol)... I wonder if you've seen an HCP who might be having their performance looked at soon enough! And that's my concern... the number of good HCPs will be driven out by internal measures or demands of the role that shift them from their usual professional outlook. You've seen some of them appear as whistle-blowers over the years in particular when doing WCAs for ESA.

    I advise the Op gets a hold of the assessment report (as I did on their other thread)... to give some reassurances.. and if not advance warning. Having these reports (promptly) can be useful in a range of ways including in future claim. All the best.

    As general advice aside from that... I think claimants should have a healthy caution regarding these assessments... they're rarely likely to ever be wholly accurate due to their nature but you can take steps to direct some accurate selection of descriptors. The default in the activities is that you trigger the zero points scoring descriptor... consider it your job to take the HCP away from being able to select that if you have disablement in the activity. Prepare well... and prepare to take some control of the assessment in terms of ensuring you place into the assessment your difficulties and explain them. Many claimants say they felt rushed and this will be largely because of the pressures of time. Remember it is your assessment... not theirs. Take a supporter with you if you can too.... it is inherently possible that witnesses present a psychological influence on the integrity of the assessor as well as obviously providing claimant some support and potentially have some input. And in the end remember... these assessments may be typically the primary evidence used by the DWP but if they're 'bad' they are certainly no impenetrable barrier to a sound award in challenging the decision or future claim. A significant chunk of those successfully appealing didn't even get any points at assessment suggesting tribunals are content to consider many HCP reports as effectively evidential junk... and on occasions seem to be provoked to use terminology like this.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 27-05-2017 at 4:11 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • dave030445
    • By dave030445 27th May 17, 5:03 PM
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    dave030445
    • #5
    • 27th May 17, 5:03 PM
    • #5
    • 27th May 17, 5:03 PM
    God the wait is killing me and it was only yesterday why they keep you waiting so long, when they know its so important to, us but hay im not the only one they have to deal with.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 27th May 17, 5:23 PM
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    Muttleythefrog
    • #6
    • 27th May 17, 5:23 PM
    • #6
    • 27th May 17, 5:23 PM
    God the wait is killing me and it was only yesterday why they keep you waiting so long, when they know its so important to, us but hay im not the only one they have to deal with.
    Originally posted by dave030445
    Hence my advice to get reports ASAP... hopefully will put mind at ease.. it isn't the decision but there's a very good chance the decision will mirror it. Probably could get the report in a week... decision more likely several weeks.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • dave030445
    • By dave030445 30th May 17, 11:32 AM
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    dave030445
    • #7
    • 30th May 17, 11:32 AM
    • #7
    • 30th May 17, 11:32 AM
    wife phoned this morning, must of got the most unhelpful member of staff. Would not say if they had received the report yet, just put note on to say send copy to me. oh well must try and put it to the back of my mind, what will be will be. As wife said there's nothing more we can do so worrying about it won't help. I will update when I hear more (not like some people.)
    • dave030445
    • By dave030445 9th Jun 17, 4:16 PM
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    dave030445
    • #8
    • 9th Jun 17, 4:16 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Jun 17, 4:16 PM
    Update: Report came today and as expected loads of lies and contradicting herself. From saying I open the front door with a walking stick (lies) to saying I don't have a bath fitted at my house (lies) saying my head spins 100 miles an hour but can walk to get medication and take pills without help and while vomiting. Oh and can walk more than 20 meters but less than 50 meters funny that distance iam wondering of anythig to do with enhanced rate. Being less than 20 metres. She has made this assumption Because I have full strength in my legs. Hello head spinning at 100 miles an hour
    Last edited by dave030445; 09-06-2017 at 4:39 PM.
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 9th Jun 17, 6:24 PM
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    IAmWales
    • #9
    • 9th Jun 17, 6:24 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jun 17, 6:24 PM
    Not being funny but you can repair a dishwasher and plant and maintain bedding plants. Is your head spinning at 100 miles an hour an intermittent problem?
    • dave030445
    • By dave030445 9th Jun 17, 6:49 PM
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    dave030445
    Not being funny but you can repair a dishwasher and plant and maintain bedding plants. Is your head spinning at 100 miles an hour an intermittent problem?
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    Hi yes it's a intermittent problem but I try and live a normal life inbetween. And no I didn't repair the dishwasher I had to get someone out to repair it as I couldn't
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 10th Jun 17, 1:14 PM
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    Muttleythefrog
    Update: Report came today and as expected loads of lies and contradicting herself. From saying I open the front door with a walking stick (lies) to saying I don't have a bath fitted at my house (lies) saying my head spins 100 miles an hour but can walk to get medication and take pills without help and while vomiting. Oh and can walk more than 20 meters but less than 50 meters funny that distance iam wondering of anythig to do with enhanced rate. Being less than 20 metres. She has made this assumption Because I have full strength in my legs. Hello head spinning at 100 miles an hour
    Originally posted by dave030445
    Damn.... it does serve as a reminder that the 'nice understanding HCP' may not always be as seems and it does catch some out at least in terms of expectations. (In contrast my HCP seemed lacking in interest and expertise yet at some level produced something generally resembling of reality despite some clear contradictions and errors). Obviously you don't have the decision yet but I would work on the basis that the odds are the decision will mirror the report. You have the advantage now of time... while you wait for decision you can consider what your responses to likely decision will be and whether further evidence could be gathered etc for later challenge if you saw fit. I would say there is possibility you could challenge the report and try to do so before they take a decision... I did but it made no difference... however it did form the basis of my reconsideration request down the line. In my case the report was full of flaw but largely helpful to my claim... in your case you'll have to assess the impacts of that report. Plenty advice I'm sure you'll get here as matters progress.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 10-06-2017 at 1:17 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • dave030445
    • By dave030445 10th Jun 17, 2:56 PM
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    dave030445
    Damn.... it does serve as a reminder that the 'nice understanding HCP' may not always be as seems and it does catch some out at least in terms of expectations. (In contrast my HCP seemed lacking in interest and expertise yet at some level produced something generally resembling of reality despite some clear contradictions and errors). Obviously you don't have the decision yet but I would work on the basis that the odds are the decision will mirror the report. You have the advantage now of time... while you wait for decision you can consider what your responses to likely decision will be and whether further evidence could be gathered etc for later challenge if you saw fit. I would say there is possibility you could challenge the report and try to do so before they take a decision... I did but it made no difference... however it did form the basis of my reconsideration request down the line. In my case the report was full of flaw but largely helpful to my claim... in your case you'll have to assess the impacts of that report. Plenty advice I'm sure you'll get here as matters progress.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    She really did give the option that she was a friend and she wanted to help. I do now get the impression that she was trying to get me to drop my guard. She kept saying oh poor you how do you cope that must me terrible to live with poor you.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 10th Jun 17, 2:58 PM
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    poppy12345
    She really did give the option that she was a friend and she wanted to help. I do now get the impression that she was trying to get me to drop my guard. She kept saying oh poor you how do you cope that must me terrible to live with poor you.
    Originally posted by dave030445
    Muttley is right a lot do give the impression they're geniune and really nice but when the report comes back they've been stabbed in the back. I didn't want to say anything when you said how nice the person was. I was lucky enough to have a very geniune person not once but 3 times. For PIP and ESA.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 10th Jun 17, 3:13 PM
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    Muttleythefrog
    She really did give the option that she was a friend and she wanted to help. I do now get the impression that she was trying to get me to drop my guard. She kept saying oh poor you how do you cope that must me terrible to live with poor you.
    Originally posted by dave030445
    I think key is to imagine that a police interrogation often employs tactics of 'good cop and bad cop' but with the intention of getting admissions and important facts over efficiency.

    With these assessments you might face one or both tactics but very much with a greater emphasis usually on efficiency than obtaining admissions and important facts. Some people will be helpful in enabling them to efficiently get through the computer driven assessment if approached in friendly way and some others in more aggressive way. I found in both my WCA many years ago and my PIP assessment last year extremes of both tactics were employed in the same assessment... which implies to me they found neither worked for them... which shouldn't be surprising given my background and my planning. Claimants I would suggest simply be weary of the assessment 'passing them by'... where few facts are given or difficulties not fully explained.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • dave030445
    • By dave030445 10th Jun 17, 3:31 PM
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    dave030445
    i heard on here that you can only get the enhanced rate of mobility component if you can walk less then 20 meters this is not true.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 10th Jun 17, 7:03 PM
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    poppy12345
    i heard on here that you can only get the enhanced rate of mobility component if you can walk less then 20 meters this is not true.
    Originally posted by dave030445
    You're wrong i'm afraid. The mobility part is 20 metres or less for Enhanced. Don't forget the reliablity criteria though, they mostly forget about this part.
    • dave030445
    • By dave030445 10th Jun 17, 9:07 PM
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    dave030445
    You're wrong i'm afraid. The mobility part is 20 metres or less for Enhanced. Don't forget the reliablity criteria though, they mostly forget about this part.
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    can you get the following
    b. Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. 4 points


    and then

    c. For reasons other than psychological distress, cannot plan the route of a journey. 8 points.

    This adds up to 12 points

    sorry for all the question im just seeing where i can collect extra points
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 10th Jun 17, 9:46 PM
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    poppy12345
    can you get the following
    b. Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. 4 points


    and then

    c. For reasons other than psychological distress, cannot plan the route of a journey. 8 points.

    This adds up to 12 points

    sorry for all the question im just seeing where i can collect extra points
    Originally posted by dave030445
    I believe they changed the descriptors for mental health making it extremely difficult to get awarded more than 4 points for "planning and following a journey. If i'm wrong then i'm sure someone with more knowledge than me will reply.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 10th Jun 17, 9:50 PM
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    poppy12345
    I'm begining to get confused with all your posts in different places. Sorry but please try to keep these questions together. So many people post questions and i don't have the greatest short term memory. Weren't you award 10 points for both parts?
    • dave030445
    • By dave030445 10th Jun 17, 9:57 PM
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    dave030445
    I'm begining to get confused with all your posts in different places. Sorry but please try to keep these questions together. So many people post questions and i don't have the greatest short term memory. Weren't you award 10 points for both parts?
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    Yes I think I will be awarded 10 points for both parts. I was just trying to work out different combination so I can see with I have more chance of getting. Sorry for the 2 post the other was supposed to be asking if anyone had it changed at MR STAGE
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