We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum... Read More »
IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including number plates, reference numbers and QR codes (which may reveal vehicle information when scanned).
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Civil Enforcement Ltd CCJ's
Comments
-
Assume that CEL never sent anything. Don't assume your neighbours took it.
In court CEL would have to prove the former. Don't suggest they might have sent it but it may have been taken once delivered. It won't hurt the keeper's case, but why let the scammers off the hook?
In May 2012, only the driver could be held liable, not the keeper. Focus on this and the fact that in 2015 the scammers have tried to retrospectively apply an act of parliament that did not actually exist at the time. So even if the scammers did send anything to the keeper, the driver and only the driver was liable.
There was no requirement in law for the keeper to respond to this.
Thanks Fruit Cake, I have amended the witness statement based on the new info from the court, do I send it all to the court with the form and should I include any supporting evidence, ie electorall roll letters or should I just send the arguments for a set aside?0 -
Certainly mention the date (May 2012) which is pre-POFA. As keeper, you could not be held liable under any applicable rule of law - and had this case been aired in court it would have had no prospects of success.
You should provide evidence of why the letters were not served and evidence as to why you may not have been/were unlikely to have been the driver in May 2012 (old insurance policy showing more than one driver?). And a copy of Schedule 4 showing that it was only enacted in Oct 2012. Prior to that there was no keeper liability and even if CEL had issued a Notice to Keeper after that date for a parking event, it is known that CEL do not use and have never used the statute in question, so cannot claim 'keeper liability' in any case.
You know you could always send a pm to saggi and ask for his/her claim number, date of decision and court/Judge.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Coupon-mad wrote: »Certainly mention the date (May 2012) which is pre-POFA. As keeper, you could not be held liable under any applicable rule of law - and had this case been aired in court it would have had no prospects of success.
You should provide evidence of why the letters were not served and evidence as to why you may not have been/were unlikely to have been the driver in May 2012 (old insurance policy showing more than one driver?). And a copy of Schedule 4 showing that it was only enacted in Oct 2012. Prior to that there was no keeper liability and even if CEL had issued a Notice to Keeper after that date for a parking event, it is known that CEL do not use and have never used the statute in question, so cannot claim 'keeper liability' in any case.
You know you could always send a pm to saggi and ask for his/her claim number, date of decision and court/Judge.
Thanks Coupon-Mad, I will try and contact Saggi and ask for these details. When you say evidence to why the letters where not served, do you mean the court papers or the letters from CEL? If the later I'm not sure what evidence I could provide. I also don't think I have any old policies from that time (it was 5 years ago)I don't even think I would have had them in 2015 when the claim forms were issued. However I will do some digging and may come up with something. Sorry to check again shall I send this all with the N244 form, if so I'm guessing two copies (one for the court one for the Claimant?)
Thanks again for the help on this!0 -
Whatever evidence you can show that explains why either the letters and/or the claim didn't arrive and that you acted immediately you learned about the CCJ. And you have to show (or state with conviction, as truth) that you not only have prospects of defending this claim but that it should be struck out and your £255 refunded by the claimant, for pursuing a keeper who cannot be held liable in law.
The Judge may not be familiar with the POFA and might assume the parking firm starts with the moral high ground. Your job is to demolish their position.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
I am now confident with the defence other than not having anything as yet to prove there could have been more than one driver, I will also have a copy of the relevant section of POFA with me at the hearing.
I can prove by way of a letter showing that I was entered on to the electoral register at my current property in November 2012, I can show that my licence was updated in Oct 2012 but cannot show the log book as the car has since been part exchanged.
I can show that I acted immediately after finding out about the CCJ's especially as they do not appear on my credit reports from any of the credit agencies and will take copies to the hearing.
I'm just not sure how to prove I never received the first or subsequent communications from CEL.0 -
I'm just not sure how to prove I never received the first or subsequent communications from CEL.
Put CEL to strict proof that they posted such communications.Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
Agreed. The burden is theirs. Like I said, your job is this: ''show (or state with conviction, as truth)''.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
So I have found the insurance docs from 2012 (thank god i never delete my emails) downside is at that time I didn't have a named driver but I know one or two people used the car and were covered on their own insurance policies.
I also found the insurance docs that were sent to me after changing my address, although as Papa has said they only have to send the claims to the last known address.
Umkomaas not sure I quite understand this:Put CEL to strict proof that they posted such communications.0 -
Both, you say 'I put the claimant to strict proof that...' then it is also discussed at the hearing. But I really think the main thing is 'no keeper liability' even if the letters were served (how does it matter?). You can't be liable, this is a vexatious and unreasonable 'punt' of a claim and ask the Judge why you should be £255 (plus loss of earnings/travel for attending a hearing) out of pocket due to this rogue, speculative claim?PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Again thank you all for the help. I think I am ready to get these in the post tomorrowask the Judge why you should be £255 (plus loss of earnings/travel for attending a hearing) out of pocket due to this rogue, speculative claim?
Could I ask you please to take one last check over my witness statement before I get it in the post, the two applications will have almost identical witness statements just amended dates and case numbers.
I am xxx of xxx and I am the Defendant in this matter.
This is my statement to support my application dated xx May 2017 to:
1. Set aside the Default Judgement xxxx dated xx August 2015 as it was not properly served at my current address.
2. Order for the original claim to be dismissed
3. Order the claimant to pay the defendant £255 as reimbursement for the set aside fee and for loss of earnings approx. £xxx per day.
1. DEFAULT JUDGEMENT
1. I understand that the claimant a Default Judgement against me as the Defendant in August 2015. The claim form was not served at my current address and thus I was not aware of the Default Judgement until a prospective employer made me aware on xx May 2017. I understand that these claims were served at an old address (xxx). In support of this I can provide confirmation from xx Council showing my entry on the electoral register in November 2012 at my current address.
2. As this default does not appear on any of my credit files I obtained the details from Registry Trust Limited and made contact with the issuing court on xx May 2017 to gather more details, at the time I was advised the Claimant’s name, a reference number and contact telephone number.
3. On the xxth May 2017 I contacted the Court to request further detail of the Default Judgement. The particulars of the claim only give the “Outstanding Debt and Damages” as the reason for the Claim, in support I can provide the details the court has emailed to me.
4. I have never received any previous documentation from the Claimant in this matter and I was never able to properly challenge the Claimant’s claim. Further I put the Claimant to strict proof that they did post such communications to the Defendants address.
5. I have made several unsuccessful attempts to contact a member of the Claimants staff via telephone on 12 May 2017 and 15 May 2017 using the number provided to me by the County Court Business Centre.
6. I believe the Claimant has behaved unreasonably in pursuing the claim against me without ensuring they held the Defendants current and correct contact details. According to publicly available information my circumstances are far from being unique. The Claimant’s persistent failure to use correct and current addresses results is an unnecessary burden for individuals and the justice system across the country.
[FONT="]7. [/FONT]Furthermore, Prime Minister May publicly pledged to investigate “abuse” of the CCJ System and so called “Credit Clamping” as reported in the Daily Mail article dated 12 September 2016. The Right Honourable Sir Oliver Heald on 23 December 2016 "announced a crackdown on unresolved debts which can damage people’s credit ratings without them knowing. The action comes after concerns were raised that companies were issuing claims to consumers using incorrect addresses."
8. On the basis provided above I would suggest that the Claimant did not fulfil their duty to use the Defendants current address when bringing the claim.
9. Considering all of the above I was unable to defend this claim properly. I believe that the Default Judgement against me was issued incorrectly and thus should be set aside.
2. ORDER DISMISSING THE CLAIM
1. I understand that the Claimant is a Parking Company which seeks to claim for “Parking Charge Notices” which the Claimant believes are due as a result of an alleged breach of contract for parking by a motorist.
2. If the Claimant has obtained details of the vehicle for which the Defendant is the Registered Keeper, and used those details to make a claim for a “Parking Charge Notice”, I thus dispute the claim in its entirety as I do not know the wording of the contract nor do I know the means by which the contract was alleged to come into force.
3. I further believe this Claim relates to a “Parking Charge Notice” issued on 28 May 2012 and therefore the Schedule 4 of Protection Of Freedom Act 2012 does not apply and the Registered Keeper of the vehicle cannot be held liable where a breach of contract may have occurred by a driver of a vehicle the Defendant is the Registered Keeper and where said keeper is unable to identify the driver.
4. For the Claimant to have obliged the Defendant to provide the drivers details at the time of said breach the Claimant would be required to apply for a “Norwich Pharmacal Order”, I am not aware of any such order being made upon the Defendant.
5. Furthermore, given the time delay of approximately three years between the alleged breach of contract and the date of this Claim it is unreasonable to expect the Defendant to have a record of who was driving the vehicle at the time of the offence.
6. I further submit that the Claimant’s claim is without merit due to substantial issues in law. This is for the following main reasons:
1. Lack of Standing by Claimant: The Claimant is unlikely to be the landowner of the car park in question, and will have no proprietary interest in it. This means that the Claimant, as a matter of law, will have no locus standi to litigate in their own name. Any consideration will have been provided by the landholder, and only they would have been able sue for any damages or trespass.
2. No contract with the claimant: Any contract must have offer, acceptance and consideration both ways. There would not have been consideration from the Claimant to the motorist; the fee for parking benefits the landowners, not the Claimant. Therefore, there is no consideration from the motorist to Civil Enforcement Ltd.
3. On this basis I believe that the Claimant has not provided any reasonable cause of action and thus the claim should be dismissed in its entirety.
7. In order to make informed decisions and statements in my defence as keeper of a vehicle, I will require copies of all paperwork and pictures of all signs from the Claimant.
Statement of Truth:
I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.
Full Name: xxxxx
Dated 16/5/2017
Signed……………………………………….0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply

Categories
- All Categories
- 350.6K Banking & Borrowing
- 253K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 453.4K Spending & Discounts
- 243.6K Work, Benefits & Business
- 598.3K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 176.7K Life & Family
- 256.8K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards