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    • longleggedhair
    • By longleggedhair 14th Mar 17, 12:15 PM
    • 203Posts
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    longleggedhair
    Gladstones CCJ
    • #1
    • 14th Mar 17, 12:15 PM
    Gladstones CCJ 14th Mar 17 at 12:15 PM
    A couple of years ago I received a letter from Euro Car Parks demanding 100 for parking in an unauthorised area. It was somewhere I had never been and the photographic "evidence" sent was a dark photograph with my registration on. It could have been taken anywhere. I immediately thought it was a scam.

    I called the company to advise them of the above. I never heard anything from them again.

    Then last month I had a letter from Gladstones Solicitors re the above threatening court action. I called them and advised them of the above. I said the photo evidence was nothing but a dark photo with my number pate on. They said they didn't have access to the photo! But if I didn't pay 150 they would take me to court. Then after the two week notice period a court summons duly arrived, now for 250!

    I filled it in, advising the court that again I wasn't there and that the only evidence was a dark photo with my number plate on and gave details of what had happened in the time since.

    This was a couple of weeks ago. I've heard from the court to say they have referred my defence to Gladstones which they have 28 days to reply to, which as yet they haven't done. I'm a little nervous about the whole thing but I will fight it to the end. I just can't believe a solicitor would take on a case without even having sight of any evidence.

    I'd appreciate any advice please.
Page 1
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 14th Mar 17, 12:20 PM
    • 3,541 Posts
    • 4,994 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #2
    • 14th Mar 17, 12:20 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Mar 17, 12:20 PM
    please read the sticky. and get your defence checked here before sending it of, otherwise you could be in a spot of bother, if what tut stated above is what you sent off
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 14th Mar 17, 1:02 PM
    • 6,502 Posts
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    The Deep
    • #3
    • 14th Mar 17, 1:02 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Mar 17, 1:02 PM
    This is not a CCJ, merely a try on from a low rent firm of solicitors. Fight back and they could be paying you money.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • longleggedhair
    • By longleggedhair 14th Mar 17, 1:16 PM
    • 203 Posts
    • 289 Thanks
    longleggedhair
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 17, 1:16 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 17, 1:16 PM
    They have issued a CCJ which I have sent in a defence for.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 14th Mar 17, 1:24 PM
    • 6,502 Posts
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    The Deep
    • #5
    • 14th Mar 17, 1:24 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Mar 17, 1:24 PM
    No they have not. They have put in a claim. In matters such as this, use of the correct terminology is a sine qua non.

    I hope that your defence has not landed you in the doodoo.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • longleggedhair
    • By longleggedhair 14th Mar 17, 1:40 PM
    • 203 Posts
    • 289 Thanks
    longleggedhair
    • #6
    • 14th Mar 17, 1:40 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Mar 17, 1:40 PM
    No they have not. They have put in a claim. In matters such as this, use of the correct terminology is a sine qua non.

    I hope that your defence has not landed you in the doodoo.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Thank you. I'm afraid I'm not familiar with matters like this. I submitted a simple Defense, I stated that I wasn't in the place I was accused of being. And that the only evidence provided to me was a blank photo with my number plate on, and that as such I refuted the claim.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 14th Mar 17, 2:20 PM
    • 13,970 Posts
    • 17,239 Thanks
    Redx
    • #7
    • 14th Mar 17, 2:20 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Mar 17, 2:20 PM
    to correct your mistakes

    Gladstones have started a court claim on behalf of their client

    the court in Northampton sent you an MCOL (not a summons)

    you have put in a poor defence to the MCOL

    no judge has decided on the outcome , yet , so there is currently NO CCJ

    a judgment will be issued by the court and you usually have 28 days to pay the judgment if they win and you lose

    if you lose & pay in full, promptly, no CCJ will follow , the matter is "satisfied"

    if you win , there is nothing to pay and no CCJ either

    its not paying the courts judgment that eventually ends in a CCJ

    as this is civil court, there is no "summons"
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • longleggedhair
    • By longleggedhair 14th Mar 17, 2:40 PM
    • 203 Posts
    • 289 Thanks
    longleggedhair
    • #8
    • 14th Mar 17, 2:40 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Mar 17, 2:40 PM
    to correct your mistakes

    Gladstones have started a court claim on behalf of their client

    the court in Northampton sent you an MCOL (not a summons)

    you have put in a poor defence to the MCOL

    no judge has decided on the outcome , yet , so there is currently NO CCJ

    a judgment will be issued by the court and you usually have 28 days to pay the judgment if they win and you lose

    if you lose & pay in full, promptly, no CCJ will follow , the matter is "satisfied"

    if you win , there is nothing to pay and no CCJ either

    its not paying the courts judgment that eventually ends in a CCJ

    as this is civil court, there is no "summons"
    Originally posted by Redx
    Ok thank you. So why is saying precisely what happened a poor Defense? What will happen now?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 14th Mar 17, 3:05 PM
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    The Deep
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 17, 3:05 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 17, 3:05 PM
    Because this is a court. Because you probably did not mention POFA, locus, signage, contracts, timeliness, Beavis, etc,.

    Compare it to a game of rugby, unless you learn the rules you will be red-carded. Stop asking questions and either pay the scammers or get reading.
    Last edited by The Deep; 14-03-2017 at 3:59 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 14th Mar 17, 3:35 PM
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    Redx
    nobody can tell you what will happen now, but I suspect one of two things will happen , that Gladstones will put in their side and then something will happen after that, depending on what you filled in

    normally people ask for it to go to their local court and turn up and defend themselves , which may happen if you asked for it

    but your defence is terrible and you cannot change it or add to it in the future, which is why it is important to have a good defence to start with

    or a judge may decide on a judgment, especially if you agreed to it being dealt with on papers

    if you dont understand why you got dark photographs with number plates on them , then you need to research ANPR cameras , check parking pranksters blog
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • longleggedhair
    • By longleggedhair 14th Mar 17, 4:59 PM
    • 203 Posts
    • 289 Thanks
    longleggedhair
    nobody can tell you what will happen now, but I suspect one of two things will happen , that Gladstones will put in their side and then something will happen after that, depending on what you filled in

    normally people ask for it to go to their local court and turn up and defend themselves , which may happen if you asked for it

    but your defence is terrible and you cannot change it or add to it in the future, which is why it is important to have a good defence to start with

    or a judge may decide on a judgment, especially if you agreed to it being dealt with on papers

    if you dont understand why you got dark photographs with number plates on them , then you need to research ANPR cameras , check parking pranksters blog
    Originally posted by Redx
    It wasn't an ANPR camera, just a handheld one. Anyway thanks for the advice. It's too late now to alter my defence, but I will go to court and put my case. I had hoped for some helpful advice from here but it seems I won't get any. I'll report back and let you know how I get on.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 14th Mar 17, 5:13 PM
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    Guys Dad
    Your defence of "This could be anywhere" and "I have never been where the PPC says" is actually a good start.

    You should ask why, if the camera was hand held, there wasn't a windscreen ticket and why no photo of the ticket on the windscreen? Obviously, there had to be a person there to take the photo (as you say it wasn't ANPR).

    Have they a map of the area and the signs and have you received that in your bundle from them?

    The NtK you originally received, how long after the event? Very important as if within 14 days, it was too soon for a windscreen ticket and if after 28 days, definitely why no photos of the ticket.

    Read POFA part 4 , sections 8&9 for more information.

    Does this qualify for "helpful advice????"
    • longleggedhair
    • By longleggedhair 14th Mar 17, 5:32 PM
    • 203 Posts
    • 289 Thanks
    longleggedhair
    Your defence of "This could be anywhere" and "I have never been where the PPC says" is actually a good start.

    You should ask why, if the camera was hand held, there wasn't a windscreen ticket and why no photo of the ticket on the windscreen? Obviously, there had to be a person there to take the photo (as you say it wasn't ANPR).

    Have they a map of the area and the signs and have you received that in your bundle from them?

    The NtK you originally received, how long after the event? Very important as if within 14 days, it was too soon for a windscreen ticket and if after 28 days, definitely why no photos of the ticket.

    Read POFA part 4 , sections 8&9 for more information.

    Does this qualify for "helpful advice????"
    Originally posted by Guys Dad
    Thank you Guys Dad. I can't remember the precise dates of receipt of the ntk in relation to the alleged incident sadly. No map or photos have been provided to me. The only thing I received was a letter with a photo of my car taken in the dark ( the car is black) all that was visible was the outline of the car and the number plate, hence my defence that the photo could be taken anywhere.

    I have been to have a look at the site and it is basically a piece of scrub land at the side of some flats that is now being developed (I'm not sure if there was signage at the time of the alleged incident-but there is none now).

    I find it hard to believe a judge would accept as evidence a blank photo with my number plate on. Surely that would mean I could go and take a photo of any car in the dark and claim it was parked on my land and demand 250!
    • longleggedhair
    • By longleggedhair 14th Mar 17, 5:35 PM
    • 203 Posts
    • 289 Thanks
    longleggedhair
    I might also add that I genuinely was not at the site. When I first received a letter from them I thought (and still do!) it was a scam. It seems one of their agents has taken a photo of my car somewhere else to bump up their numbers for the day.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 14th Mar 17, 5:45 PM
    • 13,970 Posts
    • 17,239 Thanks
    Redx
    yes of course you can do this , these parking companies are making a business out of doing it on a daily basis 24/365 and ongoing too , be it ANPR or a hand held camera or simply alleging that the incident happened with witness statements etc

    but the claimant has to convince a judge that a contract was formed and that certain laws or rules were met and that a monetary figure (or compensation) is owed

    the defendant can dispute this by putting in a worthy defence that ensures that the claimant has to prove their case so the judge is "more sure than not" that there is an enforceable contract (you can see this daily on itv in Rinder)

    if a defendant does NOT challenge signage and contracts and so forth, then the judge wont consider them , so not challenging signage , darkness , contracts etc means they wont be of help to you, simply by being omitted from the defence

    the problem here is that you have "asked for help" AFTER submitting a poor defence and a defence that doesnt seem to challenge the contract using legal arguments (see other recent defences on here to see what I mean)

    and you cannot add to this defence at a later stage , so it was imperative that you asked for help BEFORE submitting the defence , not AFTER

    you have not indicated if you have agreed to mediation, or agreed to a hearing "on papers" , or if you have asked for it to be transferred to your local court for a personal hearing ?

    how can anyone help you when you dont even tell us the basics of your defence situation ?

    to be frank, you are asking for help to get on a ship that has already sailed and your hand baggage is on that ship whereas all your main luggage is still at home, not packed , and you are stuck in limbo with access to neither and reliant on a captain steering the boat and if it comes back for your luggage or carries on without you and you have forfeited your ticket in the process

    i SUSPECT YOU WILL GET BURNED ON THIS ONE BECAUSE YOUR HAND IS ALREADY IN THE FIRE SO ASKING IF IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO PUT IT IN THERE IS TOO LATE ONCE ITS BEEN IN FOR 10 MINUTES

    the time to ask for help is when people can still help

    but the fact remains that anyone can take anybody to the small claims court for almost anything, even for charging you to read this paragraph

    enforcing it into an actual monetary gain is a different ball game however

    ps:- here is an example of a current court case where the help is being given in drafting a suitable defence

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5607535

    now ask yourself, is your defence similar ? or not ? (I suspect - NOT)
    Last edited by Redx; 14-03-2017 at 5:52 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 14th Mar 17, 5:51 PM
    • 6,502 Posts
    • 5,411 Thanks
    The Deep
    It is not what a judge thinks, it is how persuasive the evidence the other side puts up is. In other words, who hires the best lawyer. We are not deliberately being unhelpful, but the law is what it is, not what you would hope it would be.


    If you want to beat this you will have to master a great deal of detail, read some law, understand several legal concepts, and put aside personal opinions. It is not painting by numbers, but it is not differential calculus either. You have a mountain to climb, but we will provide the maps.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • longleggedhair
    • By longleggedhair 14th Mar 17, 5:55 PM
    • 203 Posts
    • 289 Thanks
    longleggedhair
    yes of course you can do this , these parking companies are making a business out of doing it on a daily basis 24/365 and ongoing too , be it ANPR or a hand held camera or simply alleging that the incident happened with witness statements etc

    but the claimant has to convince a judge that a contract was formed and that certain laws or rules were met and that a monetary figure (or compensation) is owed

    the defendant can dispute this by putting in a worthy defence that ensures that the claimant has to prove their case so the judge is "more sure than not" that there is an enforceable contract (you can see this daily on itv in Rinder)

    the problem here is that you have "asked for help" AFTER submitting a poor defence and a defence that doesnt seem to challenge the contract using legal arguments (see other recent defences on here to see what I mean)

    and you cannot add to this defence at a later stage , so it was imperative that you asked for help BEFORE submitting the defence , not AFTER

    you have not indicated if you have agreed to mediation, or agreed to a hearing "on papers" , or if you have asked for it to be transferred to your local court for a personal hearing ?

    how can anyone help you when you dont even tell us the basics of your defence situation ?

    to be frank, you are asking for help to get on a ship that has already sailed and your hand baggage is on that ship whereas all your main luggage is still at home, not packed , and you are stuck in limbo with access to neither and reliant on a captain steering the boat and if it comes back for your luggage or carries on without you and you have forfeited your ticket in the process

    i SUSPECT YOU WILL GET BURNED ON THIS ONE BECAUSE YOUR HAND IS ALREADY IN THE FIRE SO ASKING IF IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO PUT IT IN THERE IS TOO LATE ONCE ITS BEEN IN FOR 10 MINUTES

    the time to ask for help is when people can still help

    but the fact remains that anyone can take anybody to the small claims court for almost anything, even for charging you to read this paragraph

    enforcing it into an actual monetary gain is a different ball game however
    Originally posted by Redx
    Thank you. I accept what you are saying and with the benefit of hindsight I would have come here but I only came to this thread after googling Gladstones afterwards

    I have requested that the matter be transferred to a local court.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 14th Mar 17, 6:06 PM
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    Redx
    ok , in that case if your defence is "wasnt there your honour and neither was my vehicle", then in theory you need to prove the vehicle was elsewhere at the time stated, or that YOU were elsewhere (on holiday in the bahamas and the keys were locked in the safety deposit box at your local bank) and that as keeper you are not "accountable" because they have failed to follow POFA2012

    THE PPC IS IN THE PARKING BUSINESS WITH CAR PARKS AND EMPLOYING A CEO TO PATROL IT

    so they may have permission for signs and cameras , a CEO with a handheld camera who works for them taking pictures of VRM plates on vehicles and who will prepare a witness statement stating that photo is of that vehicle on that car park at the time and date stated, a DVLA request showing the KEEPER of that VRM is you , they may indicate that they have followed POFA2012 to the letter and they have the correct person in court and they should be awarded judgment

    your defence cannot be "I wasnt there you honour" , not without proof , or it could well be that yet the judge may decide on the balance of probability that the claimant has a valid claim and that they should be awarded the judgment due to this, or due to your lack of evidence to the contrary, or the fact that in your defence you have not disputed locus standii , not disputed signage , not disputed POFA2012 etc etc

    read the NEWBIES thread post #2 , look at the defence links in there, now compare them with yours and ask yourself what is missing from yours that is vital to your case

    also bear in mind you cannot introduce new legal arguments now, so you will have to expand on what you put in your defence , provide proof and evidence to back up your case a few weeks before the court case date , witness statements, evidence of the vehicle being elsewhere at the time , etc etc

    also ask yourself why there is so much information in that post #2 , why we go to great lengths to stop people putting in a c*** defence right at the start , etc

    ps:- also bear in mind the PPC is not saying that YOU were on that piece of private land, they are saying that your vehicle was parked on that piece of private land
    Last edited by Redx; 14-03-2017 at 6:19 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 14th Mar 17, 6:48 PM
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    Guys Dad
    The other side need to provide PROOF.

    Have they supplied photos of the signage? Have you got photos of the signage? If not, get them and see where they fail to meet POFA.

    At court, if they turn up, DO NOT ENGAGE WITH THEIR LAWYER or ACCEPT ANY PAPERS ON THE DAY. They will attempt to sneak some in , I am sure.

    You may also want to challenge the right of audience of their brief. Please read up the PARKING PRANKSTERs blog on his web site re how they try it on with unqualified barristers. See, read and learn what to challenge.

    But above all, demand they have a plan of the site, proper signs and why they have no picture of the windscreen with a ticket on it.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 14th Mar 17, 7:22 PM
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    • 4,994 Thanks
    Half_way
    If you were not at that location, then where were you? do you have a smart phone? if so then its possible it may have tracked your location, which you can then review on a map
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
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