Cowboy Builders and smalll claims courts

teneighty · 24 February 2017 at 11:13AM

I often don't agree with Furts and his style can seem to be rather abrasive but there is usually a nugget of truth and wisdom hidden in his comments. I certainly wouldn't call him a troll.

In this case, like so many others, the unfortunate homeowner has made some very poor decisions in their choice of builder and have attempted to manage the project themselves when they did not have the technical knowledge to do so (No offence to OP).

The one common thread that seems to run through a lot of Furts posts is to try and educate people that managing a building project, even a small residential extension can be very complex and more people should employ a professional to manage the project, be it the architect, building surveyor, or Furt's favourite a Clerk of Works. Money spent having good drawings, specification will almost always save money in the long run, having a professional to undertake contract administration/"project management" would eliminate all these terrible cowboy builder stories and the loss of many thousands of pounds so it is a very worthwhile bit of advice.

kaya · 24 February 2017 at 12:26PM

nowhere have i colluded with the builder to dupe building services, the current vat threshold is £ 83,000 so its perfecty feesable that a semi retired builder wouldn't qualify. i do understand that employing someone to manage a big commercial building project would be a smart move but this is a small home extension on a residential property and i employed someone who presented themsef as a competent professional tradesman, whilst i thank everyone for their input it would be hepful if we could make it relevent to the type of project i have rather than big commercial projects where people need clerks and project managers.
i empoyed a professional to do the drawings, had the plans approved by planning and buiding control before commencing work, i visited two jobs and spoke to the owners, got 4 quotes and didnt accept the cheapest, had a written quote for the work with the builders home address, full name and contact details, got a detailed payment schedule drawn up and had any payments signed for and dated so to my knowledge barring a professional contract ( i understand a verbal contract is acceptable in law) i have dotted the i's and crossed the t's. With reference to trolls on this site as you can see i have been a member here long enough to know and see how every thread nowadays usualy descends into this type of name calling and nonsense. The professional i employed to manage the project was a time served referenced builder and out of all the people i know who have used builders only one of them employed a project manager and he ran off with £26,000 of their money!
Thanks to all for their replies wheather helpful or relevent or not, im not sure some folk realise that endless pots of cash to employ people to watch people arent readily available to the average person?. I haven't lost out of thousands of pounds yet and unbelievable as it may sound to some we do have laws in this country designed to protect people like me and you against cowboys, their seem to be a few no win no fee solicitors about now who take on cases such as this so if the builder fails to rectify his work that will be my next port of call, the court will not go after his home or digger but the bailiffs i employ if i win judgement most certainly will. Is there anyone on here with relevent legal experience who can add anything rather than just personal opinion?

david1951 · 24 February 2017 at 12:38PM

Annie1960 wrote: »

How does it help to suggest Kaya get an expert report? Only a court can order this. Kaya could automatically lose any case by following this advice.

(emphasis added)

Not sure that is true. The fact that you have an 'expert report' in your hands could be quite a helpful precursor to filing a claim. It sounds like the OP needs to narrow down what, and what not to claim for, if they proceed with a court action. A report from a qualified person could be very helpful for this.

If they went ahead and tried to file this report as expert evidence, then they may have problems as this needs to satisfy quite stringent requirements. The court may, for example, order that a single joint (independent) expert be used, which would mean that the report in their possession couldn't be used.

However, to say that the case would be "automatically lost" if the OP had in their possession a report from a professional is simply incorrect.

Doozergirl · 24 February 2017 at 12:42PM

I agree. You need some sort of qualified information to file the claim in the first place. My experience of small claims and the county court is that you can't have too much information in your hands and that prior homework is everything.

comeandgo · 24 February 2017 at 12:44PM

Regarding the VAT, it's 83k over a 12 month period. You saw two previous jobs this builder had done, were they similar to what you were getting done? You have paid him £55k with £4K outstanding and the job was not finished. Sorry, I think it's not feasible to assume he would not be VAT registered. You paying that amount in cash is going to raise some questions.
Also, the assets you mention could be in his wife's name, most of the sole traders do this to keep their houses safe.

Doozergirl · 24 February 2017 at 1:05PM

I should think that the OP knew exactly what they were doing, paying that amount in cash.

The problems always occur when one part of the jigsaw doesn't quite fit. Some of the warning signs might put people off, but avoiding VAT is a corner cut that appeals to a lot of people and so they choose to ignore that if the builder cuts that corner, there are probably other ones they are prepared to cut.

I wonder how the OP managing the building control side of things affects the result. Perhaps the builder puts this onus on them for a reason - BC is the responsibility of the homeowner ultimately, but our quites would always include us taking care of BC and ensuring compliance.

kaya · 24 February 2017 at 1:09PM

the jobs i have seen were a blockwork porch and an extension both finished a few years before i employed him, one was a 3k job and one was about 30k. His son owns a small buiding firm and his remit is that he is empoyed by his sone to complete groundworks on his projects indicating he does a months work every 3 or 4 months hence the "semi-retired" and keeping below the thresh hold, unfortuntly his wife has terminal cancer so its gonna be a little difficult to hide his assets in her name if we ever make it to a court scenario

kaya · 24 February 2017 at 1:13PM

Doozergirl wrote: »

I should think that the OP knew exactly what they were doing, paying that amount in cash.

The problems always occur when one part of the jigsaw doesn't quite fit. Some of the warning signs might put people off, but avoiding VAT is a corner cut that appeals to a lot of people and so they choose to ignore that if the builder cuts that corner, there are probably other ones they are prepared to cut.

I wonder how the OP managing the building control side of things affects the result. Perhaps the builder puts this onus on them for a reason - BC is the responsibility of the homeowner ultimately, but our quites would always include us taking care of BC and ensuring compliance.

i didnt "manage" the building control side of things, i simply called them in at the relevent points on their paperwork to check steelwork, footings and flooring as instructed by them, buiding control have not been round to sign the job off yet as its not completed and i understand there is no time limit on how long before i call them in as some folks diy extensions take ten years to finish

Doozergirl · 24 February 2017 at 1:15PM

Keeping below the threshold doesn't explain why he needed cash. I have a seven figure turnover and I'd have trouble getting rid of that much cash.

Doozergirl · 24 February 2017 at 1:16PM

That isn't him dealing with BC either, is it? It's relying on you. Who has their name on the application and paid the bill?

Cowboy Builders and smalll claims courts

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