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  • FIRST POST
    • JodeeMcD
    • By JodeeMcD 28th Jun 16, 2:23 AM
    • 33Posts
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    JodeeMcD
    URGENT - Court Action started - PLEASE HELP!
    • #1
    • 28th Jun 16, 2:23 AM
    URGENT - Court Action started - PLEASE HELP! 28th Jun 16 at 2:23 AM
    Hi

    Over the course of summer 2015 I received 3 parking tickets at Surrey University (private land). I had a season ticket to allow me to park there but on several occasions there was building work going on so car park spaces were limited (I have no evidence of this). On the days when I received tickets I had parked outside of a marked bay, such as on the end of a row.

    I was advised by my tutor to ignore this tickets as it was private land and so I have ignored all letters from various debt collection agencies until now when I have received a County Court Claim Form from Horizon Parking represented by Gladstones Solicitors.

    I should note that it was me who parked and got the tickets but the car is registers to my husband and so all paperwork including the court claim form is addressed to him!!!

    Please can you give some advice about how to respond. Is it enough for him to say he wasn't the driver and therefore he does not have a contract with them?

    We only have a couple of days left I respond as have just got home from holiday to discover the paperwork.

    Thanks so much!
    Jodee
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 28th Jun 16, 7:08 AM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 17,004 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 28th Jun 16, 7:08 AM
    • #2
    • 28th Jun 16, 7:08 AM
    Hi

    Over the course of summer 2015 I received 3 parking tickets at Surrey University (private land). I had a season ticket to allow me to park there but on several occasions there was building work going on so car park spaces were limited (I have no evidence of this). On the days when I received tickets I had parked outside of a marked bay, such as on the end of a row.

    I was advised by my tutor to ignore this tickets as it was private land and so I have ignored all letters from various debt collection agencies until now when I have received a County Court Claim Form from Horizon Parking represented by Gladstones Solicitors.

    I should note that it was me who parked and got the tickets but the car is registers to my husband and so all paperwork including the court claim form is addressed to him!!!

    Please can you give some advice about how to respond. Is it enough for him to say he wasn't the driver and therefore he does not have a contract with them?

    We only have a couple of days left I respond as have just got home from holiday to discover the paperwork.

    Thanks so much!
    Jodee
    Originally posted by JodeeMcD
    Presumably you have been on a long holiday and he also just read the letter before court action that he will have been sent prior to the claim?


    He should now send back the tear off acknowledgement of claim form to the court thereby getting an extra 14 days to deal with this.


    Then set about #1 in the newbies faq thread near the top of the forum to see advice on dealing with court claims
    • Redx
    • By Redx 28th Jun 16, 8:44 AM
    • 16,097 Posts
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    Redx
    • #3
    • 28th Jun 16, 8:44 AM
    • #3
    • 28th Jun 16, 8:44 AM
    1) I was advised by my tutor to ignore this tickets as it was private land and so I have ignored all letters from various debt collection agencies until now when I have received a County Court Claim Form from Horizon Parking represented by Gladstones Solicitors.

    2) I should note that it was me who parked and got the tickets but the car is registers to my husband and so all paperwork including the court claim form is addressed to him!!!

    3) Is it enough for him to say he wasn't the driver and therefore he does not have a contract with them?
    Originally posted by JodeeMcD
    1) this tutor is an idiot and has misled you, I doubt he will wish to take the fall on this one but will have some mealy mouthed excuse

    2) as your husband is the RK, he will have to deal with it, even if you are writing it and researching it on his behalf

    3) no , not if they have followed a law called POFA2012 which came in almost 4 years ago which MAY transfer liability to the keeper

    however, it is for them to prove they followed POFA2012 correctly or they cannot hold him liable for the alleged debts , so POFA2012 will feature as one of several defence points because they will have to prove their claim is valid in court, against the person they brought the claim against, providing you bring up legal points that you are disputing

    so they would include

    POFA2012 irregularities
    NTK irregularities
    no locus standii
    poor signage (failing the CoP)
    any other CoP failures
    how your case differs from the BEAVIS case

    plus anything else your research turns up

    now read post #1 court sub-section of the NEWBIES sticky thread, especially the bargepole post that is linked there

    read parking pranksters court guide too

    and use the forum search box and suitable search words to find recent 2016 court claims that are ongoing (nothing older) and see what they have done and been advised to do and to write, to get an idea how your claim should progress

    the first task is acknowledge the claim to get an extra 14 days to prepare the holding defence, but leave the defence box BLANK for the time being
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • JodeeMcD
    • By JodeeMcD 28th Jun 16, 9:53 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    JodeeMcD
    • #4
    • 28th Jun 16, 9:53 AM
    • #4
    • 28th Jun 16, 9:53 AM
    Thank you for that, very helpful. I did receive the notice before court action but to be honest I just presumed it was just another debt collection type letter as all the previous letters had also mentioned court action.

    I have done what you suggested and have entered the acknowledgment of service so I now have 14 days to enter a defence.

    I have clicked through but I can't seem to find the court subsection of the Newbies thread - is there any way you can post a link please?

    I had read that unless my husband declines to say who was driving (he wouldn't, if asked he would say it was me) then they can't prosecute him. Is that not the case?

    Thanks again
    Jodee
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 28th Jun 16, 10:11 AM
    • 33,044 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #5
    • 28th Jun 16, 10:11 AM
    • #5
    • 28th Jun 16, 10:11 AM
    Well, he cannot be prosecuted at all as this is a civil case

    But he can get civil court action by way of a claim which is what is happening

    Advice is in post #1 of the faq thread
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 28th Jun 16, 12:49 PM
    • 50,691 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 28th Jun 16, 12:49 PM
    • #6
    • 28th Jun 16, 12:49 PM
    I have clicked through but I can't seem to find the court subsection of the Newbies thread
    Originally posted by JodeeMcD
    It's the section headed 'Small Claim? within the first post of 'NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST' a sticky thread permanently 'stuck' near the top of this forum's thread list. No link - it's a click back to get to page one, or just start again at the forums and click on 'parking tickets, fines & parking' under the Motoring forum.

    Read in particular, Bargepole's post there about what happens and by when, and which boxes to tick/where to send the information at each stage of court directions.

    Then, just search 'defence Gladstones' as keywords within the forum itself when you are back on page one (not within a thread like you are now). Read ANY other threads from 2016 only, not just Horizon ones as they are new. There are other Gladstones ones from this year re other PPCs, where the defence drafts people have worked on have been shown.

    Copy & adapt one for you and show us first!

    DO NOT reply to any private messages from anyone with less than a thousand posts to their name, offering to 'help' as they could be anyone with a vested interest. We will assist on the open forum here.

    Find some examples from 2016 by searching and adapt a defence to suit, then show us.

    Oh, and you did the acknowledgement in your OH's name I hope? Have you broken it to him that the defence has to be from him and if it goes to a hearing he has to turn up? NOT JUST YOU!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 28-06-2016 at 8:06 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Redx
    • By Redx 28th Jun 16, 1:28 PM
    • 16,097 Posts
    • 20,152 Thanks
    Redx
    • #7
    • 28th Jun 16, 1:28 PM
    • #7
    • 28th Jun 16, 1:28 PM
    T

    I have clicked through but I can't seem to find the court subsection of the Newbies thread - is there any way you can post a link please?

    I had read that unless my husband declines to say who was driving (he wouldn't, if asked he would say it was me) then they can't prosecute him. Is that not the case?

    Thanks again
    Jodee
    Originally posted by JodeeMcD
    its definitely in that thread, post #1 , read it again

    AND NOBODY IS BEING PROSECUTED, THIS IS A CIVIL COURT CASE, NOT A CRIMINAL CASE

    if you dont understand why they can take him to court for this, search for POFA2012 and read the law that says they CAN, if they follow the rules in that law (its an ENGLISH law , dated october 2012)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • JodeeMcD
    • By JodeeMcD 10th Jul 16, 5:37 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    JodeeMcD
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 16, 5:37 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 16, 5:37 PM
    Hi thanks for your help so far. I have done everything you have asked and have read pages and pages of forums but I am so confused by it all that I could cry. The language is so confusing that I really don't understand where to start. I haven't come across any defences which sound similar to my case, such as where the person on the court papers wasn't driving and therefore doesn't have a contract. I don't understand what POFA2012 irregularities or NOK irregularities are and I dont understand what you mean by locus standii - why wouldnt they have a right to bring this to court?

    I did the AOS in my husbands name but he works abroad so I am trying to do all the paperwork myself. He is very upset with me and I have promised to sort it all out but I am panicking because I think I am out of my depth and I don't know what to do.

    I have been cutting and pasting loads of peoples defences but I dont think any of them apply to me?

    I have managed to obtain copies of my original parking permits from the university which confirm that I had a permit to park on each occasion. The particulars of claim does not give any details about why I have incurred parking fines (it just says the dates and amounts and that the claimant is claiming parking charges and indemnity costs). I have gone through the various debt collection letters and they say the first date was 'Parking on Cross Hatching', the second 'Obstructive Parking' and the third 'Unauthorised Parking'. On all 3 occasions I parked on the end of a row of parked cars and was not obstructive in any way - I left plenty of room for other vehicles to manouvre and get around my vehicle. I was not the only vehicle to park in this manner as the car park was subject to uilding work and spaces were limited despite the fact that I had pre-paid for a parking permit.

    Can I just say exactly that in my defence? They have never asked my husband who was driving. If they asked him he would tell them.

    Please help, I am so stuck with this!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Jul 16, 5:41 PM
    • 50,691 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 16, 5:41 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 16, 5:41 PM
    I haven't come across any defences which sound similar to my case, such as where the person on the court papers wasn't driving and therefore doesn't have a contract.
    They are almost all like that, which is why you will see defences saying 'the keeper cannot be held liable' and 'wasn't the driver'. The forum is littered with them.
    Horizon Parking represented by Gladstones Solicitors...I did the AOS in my husbands name but he works abroad so I am trying to do all the paperwork myself.
    Have you acknowledged the claim in the name of the KEEPER? Not you.

    And why not send a private message (not to me, I don't take them) by clicking on the username of posters with Horizon claims, like this one:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5484104

    Calm down and compare defence notes with others.

    Also, here is a recent pepipoo thread showing a typical defence statement re a Gladstones/Horizon claim:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=106641

    Show us yours!!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 10-07-2016 at 11:09 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • JodeeMcD
    • By JodeeMcD 10th Jul 16, 6:27 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    JodeeMcD
    Thank you Coupon Mad - I will have a read of those links now. Yes I filled in the paperwork in my husbands name (he is the Reg Keeper) on Money claim online.
    • JodeeMcD
    • By JodeeMcD 10th Jul 16, 6:29 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    JodeeMcD
    Ah yes Ive read both of those already but because neither are saying they are not the driver I didnt think they would be relevant?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Jul 16, 11:15 PM
    • 50,691 Posts
    • 64,104 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Completely relevant defences, you need to stop overthinking this. Just make a version that says the defendant was not the driver, easy, look:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=70909695#post70909695

    This is much easier than you are telling yourself it is, simply a matter of adding: 'The Defendant was not the driver of the vehicle on the date in question.' then all the usual defence points as you will have noticed again and again, including in this linked one.

    Locus standi just means 'standing' (i.e. you contend that the PPC doesn't own the land - they almost never do - so your OH can allege they have no standing to bring a claim because that would be up to the landowner). You do not have to KNOW what the signs look like nor whether the PPC owns the land, just use the defence points that you see time and again and show us your draft.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • JodeeMcD
    • By JodeeMcD 15th Jul 16, 8:26 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    JodeeMcD
    Thank you for all of that Coupon-Mad! I have spent ages cutting and pasting and trying to make sense of it all and trying to make sure that I understand what it all means. This is what I've got - please let me know what you think :-0

    STATEMENT OF DEFENCE


    1.
    The Defendant denies any liability whatsoever to the Claimant.


    2.
    The Claimant has not complied with the pre-court protocol. The Particulars of Claim contains no details and fails to establish a cause of action which would enable the Defendant to prepare a specific defence. It just states “parking charges” which does not give any indication of on what basis the claim is brought. There is no information regarding why the charge arose, what the original charge was, what the alleged contract was nor anything which could be considered a fair exchange of information. The defendant therefore asks that the court orders the case to be struck out for want of a detailed course of action.


    3.
    It is admitted that Defendant is the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. However the Defendant was not the driver of the vehicle on the dates in question.
    If the Claimant is intending to pursue this claim against the Defendant on the basis that the Defendant is the registered keeper then the Claimant has failed to show that the conditions for recovering this charge under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 have been met. The Defendant disputes that any of the conditions necessary for a claim to be pursued against the keeper of the vehicle have been met.

    3.a)
    No evidence has been provided to show a valid Notice to Driver was given to the driver in accordance with Paragraph 7, Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

    3.b)
    Where a Notice to Driver was given no evidence has been provided to show that a valid Notice to Keeper was served in accordance with Paragraph 8, Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

    3.c)
    Where no Notice to Driver was given no evidence has been provided to show that a valid Notice to Keeper was served in accordance with Paragraph 9, Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

    3.d)
    No evidence has been provided to show that the Creditor has made a valid application for keepers details in accordance with Paragraph 11, Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

    QUESTION – According to POFA 2012 ‘no more can be recovered from the registered keeper than is specified on the Notice to Keeper’. This is £70 per PCN and yet they are claiming £120 per PCN – should I make a point about this?? Or would that be admitting that I have to NOK in my possession? Also, I think it says that the NOK must give details of discount for payment within 14 days. There is no mention of discount on the NOK, only on the PCN. Is this worth raising?


    4.
    It is believed that the Claimant has no standing to bring this claim. The proper Claimant is the landowner. They have failed to establish their legal right to bring a claim either as the landholder or the agent of the landholder. Strict proof is required that there is a chain of contracts leading from the landowner to Horizon Parking Limited. The Defendant claims that the Claimant does not have the authority to issue charges on this land in their own name and that they have no locus standi to bring this case.


    5.
    The Claimant has failed to establish driver liability for the parking charges and therefore there is no cause of action.

    5a)
    At the time these parking charges arose the vehicle had been issued with a permit to park at the University of Surrey car parks. If this is the location the Claimant is asserting the parking charges relate to then the charges are refuted as the permit allowed unrestricted parking in that location.

    5b)
    The permits were displayed in the window of the vehicle identified in this claim on the dates in question.


    6.
    The signage at the location is poor. The Claimant did not display clear signs within the site that were capable of being read and/or form a contract. The signage did not meet the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice or the Independent Parking Committee (IPC) Code of Practice. The Claimant was a member of the BPA, whose requirements they also did not follow. Therefore no contract has been formed with driver.


    7.
    Even if a contract had been formed it would be void. The Claimant was not acting in good faith and was in breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999.

    7.a)
    The Claimant might argue that the Supreme Court’s decision is Parking Eye v. Beavis is applicable. The Defendant will argue that the present case meets none of the conditions that the Supreme Court stated were required for a parking notice to be exempt from the well-established principle that penalty charges cannot be recovered. The main difference is that the Supreme Court determined that, in a retail park, there was a public interest in ensuring a turnover of visitors that justified a disincentive to overstay. There is clearly no such interest in a third party attempting to impose conditions in an educational establishment where there is no turnover of visitors and no pay-and-display car parking – parking is for a limited number of students and staff who must apply to the University and meet strict criteria in order to be approved and accepted onto the parking permit scheme. The vehicle in question was on this scheme and was displaying a valid permit on each of the dates given. It is denied that any contract existed here and in any case, Mr Beavis was the driver and this is not the case here.


    8.
    The Defendant also disputes that the Claimant has incurred £50 solicitor cost. The Particulars of Claim are incompetent in disclosing no cause of action.


    9.
    The Defendant invites the court to strike out the claim as having no prospect of success.


    I believe the facts stated in this defence are true.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Jul 16, 9:26 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    QUESTION – According to POFA 2012 ‘no more can be recovered from the registered keeper than is specified on the Notice to Keeper’. This is £70 per PCN and yet they are claiming £120 per PCN – should I make a point about this?? Or would that be admitting that I have to NOK in my possession? Also, I think it says that the NOK must give details of discount for payment within 14 days. There is no mention of discount on the NOK, only on the PCN. Is this worth raising?
    Yes, put both points in. You are getting the hang of this! A keeper can indeed only be liable under the POFA, for the sum on the NTK (plus court fees) not added costs, which were probably never on the signs and never incurred genuinely at all.


    Here, below, you could add a bit about the POFA again because Schedule 4 also requires 'adequate notice' of the parking charge itself:

    6.
    The signage at the location is poor. The Claimant did not display clear signs within the site that were capable of being read and/or form a contract. The signage did not meet the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice or the Independent Parking Committee (IPC) Code of Practice. The Claimant was a member of the BPA, whose requirements they also did not follow. Therefore no contract has been formed with driver and the notices do not provide the 'adequate notice' of the parking charge which is mandatory under Schedule 4 of the POFA.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • JodeeMcD
    • By JodeeMcD 15th Jul 16, 10:06 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    JodeeMcD
    Oh that's brilliant thank you soooo much! I wasn't even sure that it all made sense so thanks for your reassurance. I feel a bit calmer now :-)

    I will put those extra bits in but will they not question why I am asking them to prove the PCNs and NOKs were served and then in the next paragraph I say that the NOK only mentions £70 and doesn't give a discount. Doesn't that make it sound like I am lying?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Jul 16, 11:16 PM
    • 50,691 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    No, you are not saying the NTK doesn't exist. You are merely putting the claimant to strict proof of when the NTK was deemed served and that it was compliant (in wording). That means they will have to try to prove that in their evidence and will be something you can these bring up and question their rep about, in detail, at any hearing.

    If you don't query the compliance of the NTK at this stage, you can't use it at a hearing. So, it's just a means to an end because the case could be won (and should be won) by a defendant who wasn't driving, because we've seen Horizon documents and I don't recall them ticking all the boxes in para 8 of Schedule 4.

    You want that scrutinised in court, so you must introduce the issue in this first defence.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • JodeeMcD
    • By JodeeMcD 18th Dec 16, 3:13 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    JodeeMcD
    SO WE'RE GOING TO COURT !!!!!!

    Please help - I need to serve WITNESS STATEMENTS within the net 48 hours - I originally thought I didn't need to serve any as I didn't think we had any witnesses and had already served our quite thorough Defence Case Statement, but on reading the documents again I have just realised that both my husband and I are both witnesses (or at the very last me, as he is the defendant).

    Can anyone give me any guidance or point me towards any examples? Any help would be very much appreciated. It's all very confusing and a bit scary! Thanks so much :-)
    • elsien
    • By elsien 18th Dec 16, 10:50 PM
    • 15,165 Posts
    • 38,011 Thanks
    elsien
    Bumping this for OP.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Dec 16, 11:01 PM
    • 50,691 Posts
    • 64,104 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    SO WE'RE GOING TO COURT !!!!!!

    Please help - I need to serve WITNESS STATEMENTS within the net 48 hours - I originally thought I didn't need to serve any as I didn't think we had any witnesses and had already served our quite thorough Defence Case Statement, but on reading the documents again I have just realised that both my husband and I are both witnesses (or at the very last me, as he is the defendant).

    Can anyone give me any guidance or point me towards any examples? Any help would be very much appreciated. It's all very confusing and a bit scary! Thanks so much :-)
    Originally posted by JodeeMcD
    It's all in the NEWBIES thread, under 'Small Claim?' where it tells you about witness statements/skeleton argument stage, ready for the hearing and the evidence exhibits you must also include.

    So start by reading that part of the NEWBIES thread now, tells you what to do when and has been updated since you started your thread. It includes at least one link to a Witness Statement example. It also give you things like a link to here (see post #9) -this is IamEmanresu from here (posting as 'emanresu' on pepipoo) explaining witness statements and skeleton arguments:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=106957&st=0&p=1239147&#entry12 39147

    At the very least as evidence, your OH needs any signage photos he is relying upon, any other evidence and a copy of Schedule 4 to show the Judge (likely to be unfamiliar with it) and a copy of Henry Greenslade's words from the POPLA Annual Report 2015, about 'UNDERSTANDING KEEPER LIABILITY'.

    Here you can see an example of how those pieces of evidence helped Lamilad to win:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/mr-pickups-fun-day-out.html

    HTH
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 18-12-2016 at 11:10 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • JodeeMcD
    • By JodeeMcD 19th Dec 16, 1:56 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    JodeeMcD
    Thank you! I'm on it now!
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