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  • FIRST POST
    • Jodilina
    • By Jodilina 25th Feb 16, 12:43 PM
    • 9Posts
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    Jodilina
    Letter from TNC and aggressive phone call
    • #1
    • 25th Feb 16, 12:43 PM
    Letter from TNC and aggressive phone call 25th Feb 16 at 12:43 PM
    Hi,

    Last year my family and I parked in a car park in St Ives. We bought a ticket for a few hours which was displayed on the dashboard. When we decided to stay for some lunch - my husband ran all the way back, purchased a new ticket and stuck it to the inside of the drivers door window. We had a great day, got back to the car (where there was no evidence of a pcn. In October, we received a letter saying we had been issued a pcn which had not been paid. Luckily, we still had the valid ticket! So we sent the ticket to them, we appealed and that was declined! Since then we noticed that you can actually see our ticket under the yellow wallet of the pcn which was not on our car when we returned!! (Suspicious no?) as is, a pcn being put on a door window rather than the windscreen? So, this has now been referred to TNC who have sent a letter and also called me today. The woman I spoke to seemed irate at the fact I wouldn't pay the now £179 and said that 'officers don't just go around putting pcns on cars for no reason' - she said that her and her manager had looked at the photo and couldn't see our ticket displayed. I told her that I have the valid ticket and I displayed it and so I have no intention of paying it and wasn't sure why she was becoming aggressive with me. She said that she now had it recorded that I've said I'm not paying and it's going further. The thing I'm worried about is a court order and this whole thing affecting me getting a mortgage which I hope to be doing soon. The fact is, I know I'm in the right, I have the valid ticket and you can see it in the photo. Should I pay it? Or should I keep defending it as it's clearly unscrupulous?

    Thank you in advance for your help!
Page 1
    • dazster
    • By dazster 25th Feb 16, 1:22 PM
    • 484 Posts
    • 825 Thanks
    dazster
    • #2
    • 25th Feb 16, 1:22 PM
    • #2
    • 25th Feb 16, 1:22 PM
    TNC is merely a debt collector and can/should be ignored. Block calls from their number if you can, otherwise just don't answer.

    Who was the parking company? I hope you sent them a copy of the ticket when you appealed and you've still got the actual ticket?

    You are a long, long way from a court case and if you've still got your evidence of payment it's very, very unlikely to come to that.
    • catfunt
    • By catfunt 25th Feb 16, 1:23 PM
    • 576 Posts
    • 874 Thanks
    catfunt
    • #3
    • 25th Feb 16, 1:23 PM
    • #3
    • 25th Feb 16, 1:23 PM
    No, don't pay them.

    Don't accept any more phone calls from them. Everything in writing!

    Did you send them the real ticket, or a copy? I hope the latter.....

    I believe TNC are a debt collector (they are powerless, can't take you to court, so ignore them) - so who was the parking company?
    Did you mention or give away who was driving in the original appeal?
    Got a Private Parking Notice??
    ** Do Not Pay
    ** Do Not Ignore a Notice to Keeper (except Scotland)
    ** Do not mention who was driving (No "Me" Myself" "I")
    ** Never, ever phone a Private Parking Company
    ** Please read the NEWBIES thread at the top of the forum
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 25th Feb 16, 1:26 PM
    • 4,725 Posts
    • 4,178 Thanks
    Herzlos
    • #4
    • 25th Feb 16, 1:26 PM
    • #4
    • 25th Feb 16, 1:26 PM
    Never speak to them on the phone and ignore anything you get from them that isn't instigating court action. Do not pay them, as you'll beat them at court quite easily, should it ever get that far.

    It seems they are with the BPA, so send in a complaint that your windscreen ticket was tampered with, you weren't told about POPLA in your rejection, and the agressive nature of the phone call. Nothing will happen, but the more complaints filed the better.
    • Jodilina
    • By Jodilina 25th Feb 16, 1:34 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Jodilina
    • #5
    • 25th Feb 16, 1:34 PM
    • #5
    • 25th Feb 16, 1:34 PM
    Hiya,

    Thank you for your response. Yes we still have the original ticket and sent it when we appealed.
    • dazster
    • By dazster 25th Feb 16, 1:40 PM
    • 484 Posts
    • 825 Thanks
    dazster
    • #6
    • 25th Feb 16, 1:40 PM
    • #6
    • 25th Feb 16, 1:40 PM
    And the parking company was...?
    • Jodilina
    • By Jodilina 25th Feb 16, 1:51 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Jodilina
    • #7
    • 25th Feb 16, 1:51 PM
    • #7
    • 25th Feb 16, 1:51 PM
    The first company was armtrac - the issuer, then we appealed via IPC and lost!
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 25th Feb 16, 1:56 PM
    • 3,493 Posts
    • 4,900 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #8
    • 25th Feb 16, 1:56 PM
    • #8
    • 25th Feb 16, 1:56 PM
    can you post the full ias appeal and rejection, as well as the car park where you were ticketed in the first place
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • dazster
    • By dazster 25th Feb 16, 1:57 PM
    • 484 Posts
    • 825 Thanks
    dazster
    • #9
    • 25th Feb 16, 1:57 PM
    • #9
    • 25th Feb 16, 1:57 PM
    Ah, good old Mike "Binman" Cooke! That explains the ghost ticket.

    Given that you paid and can prove it the likelihood of it going any further is vanishingly small. What tortured logic did the IAS use to reject your perfectly valid case that you had (provably) paid?

    Anyhow you have no need to worry about TNC, and don't speak to them. Even if you answer the 'phone without realising it's them just hang up.
    • Jodilina
    • By Jodilina 25th Feb 16, 2:59 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Jodilina
    Who is Mike 'Binman' Cooke? I will try to post the appeal and rejection. I'll find out the name of the car park and post this too! Thank you all.
    • dazster
    • By dazster 25th Feb 16, 3:03 PM
    • 484 Posts
    • 825 Thanks
    dazster
    Who is Mike 'Binman' Cooke? I will try to post the appeal and rejection. I'll find out the name of the car park and post this too! Thank you all.
    Originally posted by Jodilina
    He is the scruffy, unshaven gobsh!te who runs Armtrac and has a track record for threatening physical violence.
    Last edited by dazster; 25-02-2016 at 3:07 PM.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 25th Feb 16, 3:22 PM
    • 3,493 Posts
    • 4,900 Thanks
    Half_way
    Is he the one who threatened to break someone's !!!!ing fingers?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • dazster
    • By dazster 25th Feb 16, 3:51 PM
    • 484 Posts
    • 825 Thanks
    dazster
    Yep that's him.
    • Jodilina
    • By Jodilina 25th Feb 16, 4:08 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Jodilina
    Ok - so here is my appeal:
    You completed the appeal on 03/12/2015 21:39:02.

    We are aware of all the signs that alert car park users of the correct use of purchasing and displaying a ticket in the correct manner. However, upon arrival to our vehicle on the 31st July 2015, there was no sign whatsoever of any bright yellow plastic wallet containing a fine issued by a car park attendant on our windscreen, or on any other part of the car. Nor should we have expected to see one as we had purchased and displayed a valid ticket.
    Please see attached a scanned copy of the car parking ticket that was purchased and displayed on the driver's side window at the time of purchase, valid within the time in which the parking fine was issued. Whether or not Armtrac can produce evidence that the valid pay and display ticket in question was not clearly displayed on the window remains to be seen, however, that is not the point as we have proved to Armtrac and now to you that we did in fact have a valid ticket. Would it be possible that the parking attendant, the issuer of the PCN, placed the bright yellow plastic wallet over our ticket and not on the windscreen as instructed, subsequently obstructing the view of our valid ticket. Armtrac have already proven themselves to be unscrupulous operators by sending a letter dated 20th October and not posting it out until 4th November; thus leaving us with 6 days to 'pay' or appeal their fine rather than the 21 days we were supposed to have - this has already been brought to your attention and you have investigated it on our behalf, thank you for that.
    The original pay and display ticket was sent to Armtrac in response to their initial letter as proof that we did purchase a ticket, though to Armtrac this was not satisfactory evidence.
    Please see, the date of issue 31st July 2015, time of issue 13:58, expires 15:58, for use of the car park Stennack Private Pay & Display Car Park, St Ives, Cornwall.
    As the operator has claimed to have sent you all the documentation between myself and them, I do not feel it necessary to attach all the letters of communication, but will be happy to if you so desire.

    Their Response:
    Having considered all of the evidence in this case, I am satisfied that the Operator has established a prima facie case.

    The Adjudicators only role is to determine whether the charge is lawful or not. I will only have regard to the legal principles that apply in any matter and NOT to any other feature such as the issues identified with regards to the correspondence between the Operator and Appellant.

    The terms and conditions of the contract entered into when parking on the private land in question are clear, a valid pay and display ticket must be displayed.

    The photographs of the contravention were taken between 14:50 and 14:52. They show that the only pay and display ticket on display expired at 14:29. It was therefore not a valid ticket.

    The photographs also show that the other ticket referred to by the Appellant: date of issue 31st July 2015, time of issue 13:58, expires 15:58 was not on display.

    As such the parking charge was validly issued and the appeal dismissed.
    Last edited by Jodilina; 25-02-2016 at 7:40 PM.
    • Jodilina
    • By Jodilina 25th Feb 16, 4:09 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Jodilina
    And the reason they couldn't see our ticket is because the parking attendant stuck the PCN over it.
    • dazster
    • By dazster 25th Feb 16, 4:15 PM
    • 484 Posts
    • 825 Thanks
    dazster
    Geez they are scum aren't they, the lot of them?

    Just ignore. This will not go any further (or if, amazingly, it does we will be queueing up to help you).
    • Redx
    • By Redx 25th Feb 16, 4:18 PM
    • 13,648 Posts
    • 16,753 Thanks
    Redx
    The first company was armtrac - the issuer, then we appealed via IPC and lost!
    Originally posted by Jodilina
    so this aggressive idiot then (some IPC details)

    http://www.westbriton.co.uk/Parking-company-director-phased-trips-court/story-20935058-detail/story.html

    KBT Cornwall Ltd (Trading as Armtrac Security Services)

    01/03/2015
    www.armtracservices.co.uk

    he couldnt hack it in the BPA with POPLA so went to the dark side 12 months ago

    ignore the debt collectors, for the next 6 years or so

    if any court papers arrive, ask for more help in this thread
    Last edited by Redx; 25-02-2016 at 5:13 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 25th Feb 16, 5:01 PM
    • 2,264 Posts
    • 2,757 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    Jodilina


    have a read of this blog .....

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/

    and consider sending Parky an email .... he may be interested

    good luck

    Ralph
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 25th Feb 16, 5:34 PM
    • 3,493 Posts
    • 4,900 Thanks
    Half_way
    Good result - of sorts, as its a P&D car park Beavis is irrelevant and Mike Cooke can sod off if he is expecting any payment over this, I'm sure that we will all be sticking two unbroken fingers up at Mike Cooke of Armtrac/ Mike Cooke of KBT Cornwall, ltd.

    Another aspect could be a landowner complaint - is this car park attached to any retail park or other establishment?
    An IAS loss is not the end of the world, far from it you should now turn this into a catalyst for a slew of complaints:
    The landowner ( if applicable) for employing such a shoddy outfit as Mike Cookes Armtrac and allowing them to continue to operate on their land despite evidence showing that this company/person is unsuitable and has a less than satisfactory reputation.

    The Chartered Trading Standards Institute , as the IAS has completely failed ( again ) to comply with the Alternative Dispute Resolution for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015 and as a result they should lose their accreditation as they are not fit.

    The DVLA for releasing your data

    Trading standards for the ISA not complying with the Alternative Dispute Resolution for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015

    The Advertising Standards agency, report the IAS for a service that states it complies with The Alternative Dispute Resolution for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015 when it does not - especially in the non standard appeals section

    and so on
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • dazster
    • By dazster 25th Feb 16, 5:54 PM
    • 484 Posts
    • 825 Thanks
    dazster
    Jodilina, can you post up the photo where the yellow bag obscures your second pay-and-display ticket?

    If you upload it to some picture-sharing site such as tinypic, you can post a damaged url here (replace "http" with "hxxp") and someone will re-post it fixed.
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