Lost at POPLA

1gring · 15 October 2014 at 10:52AM

I am new here got a fine by VCS at liverpool airport for stopping for 20 seconds anyway I appealed to POPLA and lost is there anything I can do now? I didn't know this about this forum and yes I read you need to use the right works but I didnt! What can I do now please
Ami

Coupon-mad · 15 October 2014 at 11:01AM

Ignore them like we did for years before POPLA existed (it only started 2 years ago). Debt collector letters will arrive and in a rare instance, if they try it on, you may need to defend a small claim but we help with those too. VCS haven't won a case we've helped defend - and they are rare anyway.

KEEP ALL YOUR PAPERWORK INCLUDING THEIR EVIDENCE PACK (YOU DID SEE VCS' EVIDENCE EMAIL TO POPLA, YES?).

So sorry you lost at POPLA - we never see posts like yours. You REALLY missed a trick!

Umkomaas · 15 October 2014 at 11:04AM

Firstly, the POPLA decision is only binding on the parking company, not on the motorist, so you are not compelled to pay this.

The only way you can be 'compelled to pay' is if a judge at the small claims court orders it. But VCS will not go to court as their parking charges levied at JLA (and other airports) are on very shaky ground.

So you're likely to start receiving debt collector letters, which will attempt to lever up the pressure on you to pay. Debt collectors in the context of these parking charges are powerless and can be ignored.

They may threaten all sorts of evil on you, but they won't/can't 'send the boys around' (or skin your cat alive!), they may even threaten court, but they have no standing in this to take you to court.

So don't worry about things, just prepare yourself for a blizzard of paperwork (but make sure you keep it, don't bin it) and get on with the rest of your life. Come back for any reassurance if needed as things progress.

As an example of a POPLA appeal for JLA that has failed, would you mind copying yours and pasting into this thread - it will help others, who might be tempted to use a similarly worded one in the future, to read the form of words that don't work.

HTH

Coupon-mad · 15 October 2014 at 11:18AM

Oh, just remembered the OP can send a Notice of Cancellation as discussed in other threads recently, as long as the parking event was since 13th June 2014.

If it were me I would definitely send such a notice, if losing at IAS or POPLA, re any PPC. As discussed here for example:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=66738053&highlight=#post66738053

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=66687446&highlight=#post66687446

A new idea I decided to add to the mix only the other week when I read those regulations - can't do any harm and could be very useful in a court defence if the Judge agrees with the argument that the contract broke those regs (if you show you cancelled then IMHO = game over if a Judge agreed those regs apply). Can't hurt.

1gring · 15 October 2014 at 4:04PM

PARKING ON PRIVATE LAND APPEALS PO Box 70748 London EC1P 1SN 0845 207 7700

Parking on Private Land Appeals is administered by the Transport and Environment Committee of London Councils Calls to Parking on Private Land Appeals may be recorded

10 October 2014
Reference: 906241xxxx
always quote in any communication with POPLA
xxxxxx xxxxxxx (Appellant)
-v-
Vehicle Control Services Limited (Operator)
The Operator issued parking charge notice number VC0xxxxxxx arising out of the presence at LiverpoolJohnLennonAirport, on 15 August 2014, of a vehicle with registration mark xxxxxxx.
The Appellant appealed against liability for the parking charge.
The Assessor considered the evidence of both parties and determined that the appeal be refused.
The Assessor’s reasons are as set out.
In order to avoid any further action by the operator, payment of the £100 parking charge should be made within 14 days.
Details of how to pay will appear on previous correspondence from the operator. 9062414515 2 10 October 2014

Reasons for the Assessor’s Determination
On 19 August 2014, the appellant was issued with a parking charge notice for breaching the terms and conditions of the parking site.
It is the operator’s case that the appellant used their vehicle for stopping or waiting in an area where stopping or waiting restrictions are in force. There is photographic evidence to support that there was adequate signage at the site to inform motorists of the parking terms and conditions. There is also photographic evidence which shows the appellant’s vehicle stopped in an area where stopping or waiting restrictions are in force.
It is the appellant’s case that he went to the site to collect his children using his satellite navigation system as he had not been to the site before. As he approached the airport he saw his children walking on the other side of the road. He is not sure why his children left the terminal but suggests that they may have panicked. He states that, as any other parent would have done, he turned his vehicle around and collected his children. The appellant also states that although there were signs erected at the site he did not read them as it was his first visit to the site and he was busy navigating.
I note the appellant’s case. However, mitigation is not a ground upon which I am able to determine this appeal. That the appellant feels he had good reason for failing to comply with the advertised terms and conditions of the site is not a reason for which I can allow an appeal.
In consideration of the evidence before me, I find that the operator has submitted photographic evidence to support that the appellant’s vehicle stopped in a no stopping area. The operator has also submitted a site map which clearly shows that the appellant’s vehicle was parked in close proximity to signage erected at the site which clearly stated, “No stopping at any time”. In addition, the operator has submitted photographic evidence to support that the appellant’s vehicle stopped in an area where stopping or waiting restrictions are in force. This is further supported by clear CCTV evidence. The CCTV evidence also shows that two passengers got into the appellant’s vehicle whilst it was stopped in close proximity to signage erected at the site. Therefore the appellant was in breach of the parking terms and conditions.
I am satisfied that there was clear and adequate signage informing motorists of the terms and conditions of the site. Upon entering private land, it is the responsibility of the motorist to ensure that they comply with all terms and conditions of the site. 9062414515 3 10 October 2014

Accordingly, this appeal is refused.
Farah Ahmad
Assessor

bod1467 · 15 October 2014 at 4:07PM

19th August ... so follow C-m's post #4 advice.

1gring · 15 October 2014 at 4:17PM

I take it you can't appeal twice to POPLA?

salmosalaris · 15 October 2014 at 4:26PM

My twopenneth
I wouldn't send a notice of cancellation . Your argument at JLA is that there is no contract by which you could be bound . By using the cancellation argument , which is open to debate , it is strengthening their case that there was a contract in the first place and that you are grasping at straws which IMO you don't need to .
I would ignore , and if a court claim appears then defend on the many issues regarding this operation .
Personally I don't think this is at all likely .

The_Deep · 15 October 2014 at 4:31PM

No, no second chance, but if they are daft enough to take this to court you can use legal arguments, (contract, GPOL, signage), as to why you should not pay which will almost certainly win your case..

ezerscrooge · 15 October 2014 at 5:11PM

I understand that Bye-Laws apply at JLA (I did see a copy of them once somewhere), so VCS would need to argue to a judge that their 'charges' override those bye-laws.

I'd like to see them try. The link below shows the efforts of one chap to obtain a copy of the Bye Laws with some success.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/liverpool_airport_byelaws

esmerobbo · 15 October 2014 at 5:27PM

I have been digging on this for a while, getting nowhere. However one thing I have found is Speke Hall Avenue, were this is happening is outside JLA's boundary in fact the boundary is the fence running along the east side of the road. It is also outside the boundary of the old airport site.

However it is owned by Peel Holdings, who own the land to the east of the airport right across to the Garston boundary, were they also ticket for stopping on the Liverpool International Business Park.

Lost at POPLA

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