Elderly relative - finances.

JohnRo · 15 February 2014 at 2:15PM

Please move as appropriate

Hello,
Really not sure where to post this but here goes, I'm currently looking after an elderly aunty in the sense that I visit regularly and make sure everything is ok. She's (not so) early stage dementia, very, very forgetful but so far able to just about look after her person.

I wouldn't class myself as a carer even though I am, I vac the carpets and clean up and see to the bins, feed her when I'm there and manage all her finances. She had been threatened with eviction due to unpaid rent and had credit card debt she wasn't dealing with. I managed to turn all that around for her, get her the financial help she's due, involved social services, council and medical people, moved her money around, set up bank account, direct debits for utilities etc. so she now has nothing to do in terms of money or any bills due, except to pay the window cleaner and milkman when they knock on her door. Had a real battle getting her to accept the electronic movement of money and bill paying, to stop using cash since she can't get out etc. but she's now, relatively, in a very comfortable financial position and realises the benefits.

Anyway, I currently do her grocery and household shopping and take money for that and also she insists I take some for myself. The thing that concerns me is that this is a totally informal arrangement but for convenience I've set up a weekly bank transfer.

I know it's an open ended question but are there any implications regarding the regular transfer of money to myself from her, since she is vulnerable and could be seen as exploitable, that I need to be aware of?

I have spoken to her frequently about the situation but it needs repeating every time the subject is aired because she doesn't remember much at all. I've spoken about her making a will and also she suggested I write a letter for her to sign regarding the transfer of money and her wish for me to take some for myself, but I'm not sure how much that would be worth if ever needed.

Just after some input from anyone who might have pearls of wisdom from being in a similar situation. Any pointers much appreciated.

RedBern · 15 February 2014 at 2:33PM

I think you're right to be cautious abut this, although you're doing things for the best reasons, you should put safeguards in place to prevent any suggestions of financial mismanagement. May be worth contacting your local Age Concern office and ask them for further advice.
http://www.ageuk.org.uk/health-wellbeing/conditions-illnesses/dementia/

Gavin83 · 15 February 2014 at 2:43PM

Keep records of everything you buy for her from the money she sends you.

When this is referred to the council for either homecare or residential care it'll likely be referred to the safeguarding team as it could potentially be seen as financial abuse. If you have records along with your reasoning you'll be fine, otherwise you could been seen as breaking the law and the punishment could be quite severe.

Mojisola · 15 February 2014 at 2:45PM

JohnRo wrote: »

I wouldn't class myself as a carer even though I am,

I vac the carpets and clean up and see to the bins, feed her when I'm there and manage all her finances. She had been threatened with eviction due to unpaid rent and had credit card debt she wasn't dealing with. I managed to turn all that around for her, get her the financial help she's due, involved social services, council and medical people, moved her money around, set up bank account, direct debits for utilities etc. so she now has nothing to do in terms of money or any bills due, except to pay the window cleaner and milkman when they knock on her door.

Anyway, I currently do her grocery and household shopping and take money for that and also she insists I take some for myself. The thing that concerns me is that this is a totally informal arrangement but for convenience I've set up a weekly bank transfer.

You certainly are a carer and doing a good job by the sound of it.

My parents used to give me a nominal sum each week - they said that they would have to pay someone else a lot more to do what I was doing for them (and they wouldn't be happy having a stranger sorting out their finances) so wanted to show their appreciation.

As your money is going through the bank, it would make sense to have something in writing to show that it's her wish to give you the money because you are doing so much to help her.

pmlindyloo · 15 February 2014 at 2:49PM

Please don't take this the wrong way (I think what you are doing is admirable) but you say you have set up a weekly bank transfer for shopping and your 'something for yourself?'. Is this internet banking that you are 'in charge of?'

If this is the case then I think this could be interpreted in the wrong way - i.e. you have access to her money and could, in theory, transfer any amounts of money that you like.

it is important to keep receipts for shopping and show this is the amount that you are transferring. Personally, in the circumstances, I would not be taking any money for myself unless it was petrol money needed.

I agree about speaking to AgeUK for their input.

A more important aspect is the one concerning any relatives.

If your aunt were to die intestate then who would inherit? This is the person(s) who might query your involvement in your aunt's financial affairs.

If there are no other relatives then you should do this properly. i.e. set up a Lasting Power of Attorney. Of course, this could only be set up if your aunt is 'compos mentis'. Otherwise you will have to go through the Court of Protection.

If there are other relatives then you need to talk to them about what you are doing.

itsanne · 15 February 2014 at 2:53PM

It sounds like you're doing a great job for your aunt! There are a few things it's worth thinking about, though. One is the issue of how you've managed to sort the electronic transfers to pay for bills and transfer money to yourself. I understand why you've arranged that, but it sounds as if you've done it all as if you were her. Is there any other family, especially anyone who might query the transfers. If so, I'd be inclined to let them know the situation rather than have them find out about it. Make sure you document what the money is spent on and keep receipts.

The easiest way for things to run smoothly is through Power of Attorney, but as her dementia means that your aunt cannot simply agree to it it's a longer and more complicated process. It would still be worth looking at.

Your aunt is lucky to have you looking out for her.

JohnRo · 15 February 2014 at 2:53PM

Everything I'm doing is well known by all relatives, I've talked to all the immediate family about it and they're all fully aware of the situation. I'm not hiding or tricking anyone and have no intention of trying to.

Of course I realise someone looking in might well be quick to jump to that conclusion and see things in a different light.

The banking has been done with the full knowledge of the bank, it's telephone banking and I have an agreement in place that I provide them with a password when speaking so they know who I am and that I am acting with her consent.

I'm fully aware it's the sort of situation people are quick to judge which is why I decided to post. I have held a LPA for my mum for years but not for my aunty. Had briefly looked into it but I'm not sure the cost is justified given the burden is all mine and won't help with anything at this stage. Maybe I need to revisit this but I'll speak to age UK first.

itsanne · 15 February 2014 at 3:44PM

JohnRo wrote: »

Everything I'm doing is well known by all relatives, I've talked to all the immediate family about it and they're all fully aware of the situation. I'm not hiding or tricking anyone and have no intention of trying to.

Of course I realise someone looking in might well be quick to jump to that conclusion and see things in a different light.

The banking has been done with the full knowledge of the bank, it's telephone banking and I have an agreement in place that I provide them with a password when speaking so they know who I am and that I am acting with her consent.

I'm fully aware it's the sort of situation people are quick to judge which is why I decided to post. I have held a LPA for my mum for years but not for my aunty. Had briefly looked into it but I'm not sure the cost is justified given the burden is all mine and won't help with anything at this stage. Maybe I need to revisit this but I'll speak to age UK first.

Things sound fine, then. Well done.

maman · 15 February 2014 at 4:26PM

I admire what you're doing and I'm sure the payment is justified. Your aunty would probably prefer to pay you than an unknown carer (string of carers).

I think you're wise to take advice though, then it's all open and above board.

Another issue came to mind: HMRC would definitely be interested in any additional income for you. Maybe it would be better looked at as a gift but they have rules on that too.:o Then there's all the rules about self employed working. What a minefield!

You need to check.

JohnRo · 15 February 2014 at 4:59PM

A big part of the problem and why I'm in this situation is that she's refused to have official carers, I had social services come and see her more than once to provide information and discuss her options regarding help in the home and it all seemed to go in one ear and out of the other.

She's a difficult person to put it mildly and has problems being rational when it comes to strangers coming in to help her, which I can sort of understand. Doesn't seem to understand or be able to process that outside help now while she's at home is about keeping her there and not just a ploy to "trash" her and get her dumped into residential care. The sad part of all this is that she'll make what she fears most happen sooner by pushing the help away. She refused to deal with the memory team I arranged for her twice, just for the sake of taking tablets that might help arrest the illness but I suppose that's the nature of these things.

I'm aware of the rules on gifting, 7 years and IHT (which won't be an issue).

Thanks all.

pineapple123 · 15 February 2014 at 5:27PM

You do indeed need to be careful with regards to transferring funds etc. The law has changed with regards to vunerable adults and protection issues. It is taken very seriously nowadays.
If you are her closest NOK then you need to address this issue with her care manager/social services/solicitors regarding court of protection, you would be expected to keep account of all spending and money transfers.

I agree with others what you are doing is wonderful for aunty however you could leave yourself in trouble especially if you have no POA or COP in place.
POA may be difficult to obtain with someone suffering with dementia.
COP can take a while and costs.

Please do everything above board to protect yourself.

Elderly relative - finances.

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