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  • FIRST POST
    bob_ewing
    Highview PCN Allowed / (won) Appeal Start to Finish
    • #1
    • 24th Jan 14, 1:53 PM
    Highview PCN Allowed / (won) Appeal Start to Finish 24th Jan 14 at 1:53 PM
    This is the chronological account of my PCN case with Highview Parking for alleged parking in Waterfields Retails Park Watford and my successful POPLA appeal.

    15/10/2013 (A few days after)
    "Charge Notice" Received in the post with images of alleged entry and exit to and from retail park.

    07/11/2013
    Sent initial appeal to Highview as follows

    "To Highview Parking
    I am writing to you in regards to Charge Notice XXXX Reg. XXXX XXX
    This charge is punitive. Please cancel the charge forthwith or refer the matter to POPLA and provide me with the POPLA code in doing so.
    From
    <my name>"

    07/11/2013 (same day)
    Repsonse from Highview
    "Dear Sir,
    Thank you for your correspondence concerning your Charge Notice.
    This PCN was issued legally and correctly according to the British Parking Association Approved Operators Scheme.
    We are fully aware that this is a standard text, with no relation to any specific circumstances which might have represented valid mitigation against the issue of this charge.
    The amount of the charge is well within BPA guidelines, and reflects the cost to our clients, both in terms of congestion caused at this site by drivers abusing the parking restrictions, and our fees for enforcing these restrictions, while installing and maintaining the necessary equipment to do so.
    In light of this, on this occasion, your representations have been carefully considered and rejected.
    We can confirm that we will hold the charge at the current rate for a further 14 days from the date of this correspondence, after which the full amount will be due.
    Yours faithfully,
    Highview Parking Limited

    <POPLA code and standard text was appended>

    02/12/2013
    Submitted Popla Appeal as follows
    "Dear Popla

    Appeal Re: Highview parking Charge Notice Ref. No.XXXX - Waterfields Retail Park Vehicle Reg. XXXX XXX. POPLA reference code XXXX.

    On the 15/10/2013, Highview issued a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) because the above vehicle was allegedly recorded on their automatic number plate recognition system as having stayed in Waterfields Car Park for 3 hour 21 minutes.

    This appeal is on the grounds that I am not liable for the parking charge, and the 'parking charge' exceeds the appropriate amount.

    My Appeal follows:

    NO GENUINE PRE ESTIMATE OF LOSS
    The amount of the charge is disproportionate to the loss incurred by Highview Parking Ltd and is punitive, thereby contravening the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997. I also consider the PCN to be a penalty because Highview Parking Ltd have alleged a breach of terms and conditions and yet have not quantified their alleged loss.

    Waterields is a free car park, therefore the parking charges have been paid in full and there is no loss to the owner.

    Highview sent me the following in response to my first appeal to them: "The amount of the charge is well within BPA guidelines, and reflects the cost to our clients, both in terms of congestion caused at this site by drivers abusing the parking restrictions, and our fees for enforcing these restrictions, while installing and maintaining the necessary equipment to do so."

    I require Highview parking to submit a full breakdown of their losses due to the alleged parking allegation, and this cannot include any of the above or the POPLA fee. These are not actual losses following the alleged breach, these are business running costs.

    NOTICE TO KEEPER NON COMPLAINT
    There is non-compliance with the wording of the Notice to Keeper. It is not compliant with paragraph 9 (2)(h) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 (POFA) in that it does not identify the creditor. The operator is required to specifically "identify" the creditor not simply name them on it. This would require words to the effect of "The creditor is …".

    The keeper is entitled to know the party with whom any purported contract was made. These, they have failed to do and thus have have not fulfilled all the requirements necessary under POFA to allow them to attempt recovery of any charge from the keeper.

    In this case keeper liability has been lost due as it fails to clarify what the contravention is, nor who the creditor is and so it fails to meet the requirements for a Notice to Keeper under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

    CONTRACT WITH THE LANDOWNER - NOT COMPLIANT WITH THE BPA CODE OF PRACTICE AND NO LEGAL STATUS TO OFFER PARKING OR ENFORCE TICKETS
    I believe there is no contract with the landowner/occupier that entitles them to levy these charges and therefore has no authority to issue Parking Charge Notices (PCNs). This being the case, the burden of proof shifts to Highview Parking Ltd to prove otherwise - I therefore require that Highview Parking Ltd produce a copy of their contract with the owner/occupier which, to be compliant with the BPA code of Practice, must grant Highview authority to form contracts with drivers and to pursue charges in their own right in the courts. I believe Highview only have an agency agreement with the landowner which does not meet the standards in the BPA CoP.

    EVIDENCE OF COMPLIENCE - ANPR REQUIREMENTS - PART 21 OF THE BPA CODE OF PRACTICE
    The BPA code of practice contains the following:

    21 Automatic number plate recognition (ANPR)
    • 21.1 You may use ANPR camera technology to manage,
    control and enforce parking in private car parks, as long
    as you do this in a reasonable, consistent and transparent
    manner. Your signs at the car park must tell drivers that
    you are using this technology and what you will use the
    data captured by ANPR cameras for.

    • 21.2 Quality checks: before you issue a parking charge
    notice you must carry out a manual quality check of the
    ANPR images to reduce errors and make sure that it is
    appropriate to take action. Full details of the items you
    should check are listed in the Operators’ Handbook.

    • 21.3 You must keep any ANPR equipment you use in your
    car parks in good working order. You need to make sure
    the data you are collecting is accurate, securely held and
    cannot be tampered with. The processes that you use
    to manage your ANPR system may be audited by our
    compliance team or our agents.

    • 21.4 It is also a condition of the Code that, if you receive and
    process vehicle or registered keeper data, you must:
    • be registered with the Information Commissioner
    • keep to the Data Protection Act
    • follow the DVLA requirements concerning the data
    • follow the guidelines from the Information
    Commissioner’s Office on the use of CCTV and
    ANPR cameras, and on keeping and sharing personal
    data such as vehicle registration marks.

    • 21.5 If you want to make use of the Keeper Liability
    provisions in Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 and you have
    not issued and delivered a parking charge notice to the
    driver in the car park where the parking event took
    place, your Notice to Keeper must meet the strict
    requirements and timetable set out in the Schedule
    (in particular paragraph 9).

    I have no evidence that Highview have complied with these BPA Code requirements for ANPR issued tickets. I hereby request that this evidence is provided.

    This concludes my appeal.

    <my name>

    03/12/2013
    Acknowledgement letter received from POPLA with date that the appeal will be heard.

    30/12/2013
    "Evidence Pack" received from POPLA. Contained some choice Diatribe from Highview. This is their case summary -

    "<my name> appealed this charge with an extremely brief email in which he stated that the charge was punitive, and demanded that we either cancel it or provide a POPLA code.
    We responded by pointing out that we were full (sic) aware that he had forwarded a copy of standard text, rather than make any attempt to describe any mitigating circumstances particular to his case that might represent grounds for us to reconsider it. We confirmed that the amount of the charge was well within British Parking Association guidelines, and rejected his representations accordingly.
    <my name> has since appealed to POPLA with a significantly more substantial, detailed appeal which we would note is nevertheless a further template letter. In doing so, he is following advice circulated on the internet forums dedicated to undermining ours and POPLA's appeal procedures, which encourage appellants to send derisory appeals to acquire a code, and then send more exhaustive, but equally generic appeals to POPLA. We would argue that this is an entirely vexatious attempt to subvert the appeals process, and that <my name> has no valid grounds for appeals. He has neglected to set out any genuine mitigation that have given us cause to reconsider this charge, and has instead resorted to sending a generic objection that would apply equally to all charges that we issue if it was given any credence in this case. By using this site, he entered into a contract to either adhere to the prominently advertised time limit or pay the stipulated charge, which we are chosing to uphold."

    24/01/2014
    Appeal decision received - Allowed
    Extract below
    "The appellant has made a number of submissions, however, I will only elaborate on the one submission that I am allowing this appeal on, namely that the parking charge amount is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.
    The burden is on the operator to prove that the parking charge is a genuine pre-estimate of loss. However, the operator has failed to establish a genuine pre-estimate of loss. Therefore I am not satisfied that the operator has discharged the burden.
    Accordingly, this appeal must be allowed."

    Summary And Acknowledgements.
    First the acknowledgements. A massive thanks to Coupon-mad and Lou30. I followed Coupon's advice and used Lou30's appeal as a very similar basis to my own.

    In summary, I would say that the day I got the ticket I was very angry and unsure what to do (I knew I would not pay it) but thanks to the power of communities such as these, it gave me the empowerment to fight back against these rackets which I hope will be made illegal.

    B.
Page 1
  • kirkbyinfurnesslad
    • #2
    • 24th Jan 14, 1:57 PM
    • #2
    • 24th Jan 14, 1:57 PM
    Thanks for updating us.

    I see high view are no longer spurred Into doing anything
    • The Slithy Tove
    • By The Slithy Tove 24th Jan 14, 2:04 PM
    • 3,214 Posts
    • 4,643 Thanks
    The Slithy Tove
    • #3
    • 24th Jan 14, 2:04 PM
    • #3
    • 24th Jan 14, 2:04 PM
    An excellent summary. See how easy it really is, newbies? It matters not the circumstances around the parking event at all. Though a slightly longer initial appeal will help get a POPLA code from some of the PPCs.
    • trisontana
    • By trisontana 24th Jan 14, 2:06 PM
    • 8,948 Posts
    • 13,687 Thanks
    trisontana
    • #4
    • 24th Jan 14, 2:06 PM
    • #4
    • 24th Jan 14, 2:06 PM
    " In doing so, he is following advice circulated on the internet forums dedicated to undermining ours and POPLA's appeal procedures, which encourage appellants to send derisory appeals to acquire a code, and then send more exhaustive, but equally generic appeals to POPLA. We would argue that this is an entirely vexatious attempt to subvert the appeals process, and that <my name> has no valid grounds for appeals."

    They don't like it up them , do they?

    I had to smile when the talked about "mitigating circumstances", when we all know that POPLA don't do mitigating circumstance.
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 24th Jan 14, 2:56 PM
    • 26,224 Posts
    • 33,284 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    • #5
    • 24th Jan 14, 2:56 PM
    • #5
    • 24th Jan 14, 2:56 PM
    I'm trying to work out what all that means, the only thing I can get is "
    Whiney voice., If they had told us they knew it was all bluff by properly appealing we would not have wasted £32"
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Jan 14, 5:03 PM
    • 51,711 Posts
    • 65,365 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 24th Jan 14, 5:03 PM
    • #6
    • 24th Jan 14, 5:03 PM
    The thing is they say it's 'vexatious' to do this sort of soft first appeal and then a winning POPLA appeal, and yet with Council PCNs that is exactly what almost everyone who wins at PATAS and TPT does. It is the normal way of appeals of this nature, that the second stage would be a stronger attempt to win after a rejection letter, with more research having been carried out (of course).

    They really do NOT like this do they?! Hahahahahahahahaha, toys flying out of the pram because they were sussed! Yet it is THEIR FAULT if their business model is neither compliant nor enforceable in contract law.

    Well done to the OP in finding the right advice in good time, and then winning!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 24-01-2014 at 5:08 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Redx
    • By Redx 24th Jan 14, 5:12 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,997 Thanks
    Redx
    • #7
    • 24th Jan 14, 5:12 PM
    • #7
    • 24th Jan 14, 5:12 PM
    its also "vexatious" for them to keep including their costs of running a business, or complaining if you had written you were bitten by radioactive spiders , or were abducted by aliens

    perhaps if they put their business in order and abided by the BPA rules and also applied some common sense they might get a fairer crack of the whip, but I doubt it will happen

    if the loss to the landowner is nil, its pointless costing themselves over £32 in each disputed case

    Excel complained about my relative changing his popla appeal compared to his soft appeal, there was a good reason for that , I got involved before his popla appeal!!
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 24th Jan 14, 5:24 PM
    • 2,585 Posts
    • 3,848 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #8
    • 24th Jan 14, 5:24 PM
    Muppets!
    • #8
    • 24th Jan 14, 5:24 PM
    'He has neglected to set out any genuine mitigation that have given us cause to reconsider this charge.'

    Since when did a PPC actually cancel on mitigation?

    'we would note is nevertheless a further template letter'

    Oh they mean like PPC's that send out template letters all the time.Highview really are stupid, they are the PPC of choice at a Tesco near me, their signage is pathetic and virtually non existent, and the one sign warning you of ANPR at the entrance is totally hidden behind the Tesco sign post.
    Last edited by fisherjim; 24-01-2014 at 5:30 PM.
    • trisontana
    • By trisontana 24th Jan 14, 5:27 PM
    • 8,948 Posts
    • 13,687 Thanks
    trisontana
    • #9
    • 24th Jan 14, 5:27 PM
    • #9
    • 24th Jan 14, 5:27 PM
    I heard the same argument from Rachel at Aldi's "parking department. She came out with the sob story of the reason that PE turn down many appeals is because they are not in possesion of the "full facts" when somebody just makes a soft appeal, thus hoping to get a POPLA code. She said that if they were in possession of those "facts" the PE would allow more appeals (allegedly) . And it's all the fault of various parking forums. . Hogwash of course.
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
  • ledsons teeth
    I see no problem here despite Highviews moaning.

    1. Bob appealed to Highview that the charge was punitive (Rejected)

    2. Bob appealed to POPLA that the charge was punitive (Allowed)
  • android26
    ... resorted to sending a generic objection that would apply equally to all charges that we issue if it was given any credence in this case.
    Originally posted by bob_ewing
    So an admission that any and all of their pcn's are flawed and not credible. Tantamount to saying that if this appeal is allowed then the game's up for parking companies. How far does it have to go for pcn's to be deemed illegal demands for money? I suppose while some courts agree with them, they can argue they are legitimate.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 24th Jan 14, 8:26 PM
    • 7,413 Posts
    • 6,460 Thanks
    The Deep
    Should the Memsahib pick up any further unsolicited psrking invoices, (she had two which I swatted aside pre POFA), my next appeal to the scammers will be about breakfast Wheatabix deficiency, followed by a Popla appeal throwing the book at them.

    If they don't like it, they know what they can do.
    • totallytech
    • By totallytech 25th Apr 14, 1:05 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    totallytech
    Hey Guys,

    I've just picked up a Highview PCN for parking in free parking in Norwich!

    I've just emailed them exactly as it says on here....

    Highview Parking Limited
    PO BOX 3573
    Barnet
    EN5 9QA

    Friday, 25 April 2014.

    I am writing to you in regards to Charge Notice: XXXX Reg: XXXX XXX.

    This charge is punitive. Please cancel the charge forthwith or refer the matter to POPLA and provide me with the POPLA code in doing so.

    Yours Sincerely

    Me....
    I'm wondering if you can then email POPLA or do you need to write to them (Once Highview pass me the reference etc)
    • trisontana
    • By trisontana 25th Apr 14, 1:09 PM
    • 8,948 Posts
    • 13,687 Thanks
    trisontana
    Hey Guys,

    I've just picked up a Highview PCN for parking in free parking in Norwich!

    I've just emailed them exactly as it says on here....



    I'm wondering if you can then email POPLA or do you need to write to them (Once Highview pass me the reference etc)
    Originally posted by totallytech
    Please start your own thread. That way you will get better help.
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
    • totallytech
    • By totallytech 25th Apr 14, 9:55 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    totallytech
    Please start your own thread. That way you will get better help.
    Originally posted by trisontana
    Sorry, I should have made myself clearer.

    I was simply asking bob_ewing if he emailed POPLA or if he wrote to them etc?

    I followed / am following the steps he has used so wasnt really asking for help, more so just asking him what he did

    Seemed daft to start my own thread when bob_ewing has spoken with the exact same company and won
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 25th Apr 14, 10:18 PM
    • 2,585 Posts
    • 3,848 Thanks
    fisherjim
    Sorry, I should have made myself clearer.

    I was simply asking bob_ewing if he emailed POPLA or if he wrote to them etc?

    I followed / am following the steps he has used so wasnt really asking for help, more so just asking him what he did

    Seemed daft to start my own thread when bob_ewing has spoken with the exact same company and won
    Originally posted by totallytech
    As he hasn't been on here since 24th January you might have a long wait!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 25th Apr 14, 10:21 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,997 Thanks
    Redx
    Hey Guys,

    I've just picked up a Highview PCN for parking in free parking in Norwich!

    I've just emailed them exactly as it says on here....



    I'm wondering if you can then email POPLA or do you need to write to them (Once Highview pass me the reference etc)
    Originally posted by totallytech
    no , you cannot email a popla appeal to popla

    either you submit it on their web page , OR you post it (or both)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • totallytech
    • By totallytech 26th Apr 14, 12:03 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    totallytech
    As he hasn't been on here since 24th January you might have a long wait!
    Originally posted by fisherjim
    Ah!! Good point!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 26th Apr 14, 11:15 PM
    • 51,711 Posts
    • 65,365 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Unfortunately, by not going to page one of the forum and not reading the NEWBIES thread yet, you have missed the proper appeal to send. Highview DO NOT consider the short two-liner you quoted as an appeal and WILL NOT send you a POPLA code in response to that. They take umbrage against short responses like that with no 'appeal points'.

    Please start again at square one and don't pass 'go' until you've read the 'PRIVATE PARKING TICKET? NEWBIES PLEASE READ THIS FIRST!' thread at the top:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

    Please read the top thread and re-send the appeal using the template in the top sticky thread.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

  • greenie12
    Hi my husband has received a notice from highview parking for parking on sports direct land in east ham, however he wasn't actually parked as he is an auto locksmith and was working on a car parked there where the owner had lost the keys which he replaced onsite so he never actually left the vehicle. After reading all your posts i realised this is a scam and need some advice regarding how to proceed. The notice was given 13 days are the alleged offence and the letter states they got the registered keeper details from the dvla however reading up on this matter i believe this is a breach of the data protection act if this information is requested within 28 days and threfore they can't legally sue us. Does anyone know if this is correct and could you advise how to proceed as i don't want to give these guys our hard earned money if we don't have to but also don't want bailiffs knocking on the door as have young children. Thank you for any help you can give me.
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