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Nat West refusing lasting power of attorney
swoon1
Posts: 1 Newbie
I do hope someone can help me, as really confused, perplexed, angry and really stumped in what to do.
An LPA was registered with the Office of Public Guardian back in Jan 2009, for me to the be in charge/control of my 86 year old father's financial affairs. Since then, have opened two bank accounts, a joint account with Santander and a current account in my father's name with Nat West. Both accepted the LPA, and have no problems until now.
My father as he gets older gets forgetful and confused, so when the LPA was registered made sure that there was no clauses in the LPA that allowed my father to make decisions on his own, without my consultation or agreement. Anyways, it transpires that Nat West called my father saying that because he had too much money in his current account, it would be a good idea to put some money into a savings account. My father told me he said yes, and though Nat West did not consult me, thought it wouldn't be a problem accessing the new account as the bank have accepted the LPA and have photocopies of the agreement and transcript.
Walked into the bank to get all the details, and the rather mis-informed bank person told me that access was denied for me. Explained I had an LPA, to which they said yes for the current account, not the new one. I said that the LPA was all encompassing, and the fact that I was not consulted at anytime about the new account and money being transferred from the current one. The bank manager wouldn't see me, and I spent the next few days on the phone talking to Nat West who said that under no circumstances was I allowed access, and that my father agreed to open a new account. Now, I'm not disputing the fact that he did agree, but as the bank are saying that only my father can have access, he is housebound, partially sighted, with no computer to access online banking, means the money (£4,000) is just sat in limbo. I also live 200 miles away from my father, so access to his branch is not easy for me.
This was seven days ago, I have no idea where the money is. My father has had no correspondence in terms of an account number, and I seem to be getting nowhere with them. The fact that they emptied at least 80% of his current account is making me concerned that my father will not be able to meet his bills that are paid via the current account.
The bank are being downright rude, obstructive, it's almost tantamount to theft. What can I do? Help please.
An LPA was registered with the Office of Public Guardian back in Jan 2009, for me to the be in charge/control of my 86 year old father's financial affairs. Since then, have opened two bank accounts, a joint account with Santander and a current account in my father's name with Nat West. Both accepted the LPA, and have no problems until now.
My father as he gets older gets forgetful and confused, so when the LPA was registered made sure that there was no clauses in the LPA that allowed my father to make decisions on his own, without my consultation or agreement. Anyways, it transpires that Nat West called my father saying that because he had too much money in his current account, it would be a good idea to put some money into a savings account. My father told me he said yes, and though Nat West did not consult me, thought it wouldn't be a problem accessing the new account as the bank have accepted the LPA and have photocopies of the agreement and transcript.
Walked into the bank to get all the details, and the rather mis-informed bank person told me that access was denied for me. Explained I had an LPA, to which they said yes for the current account, not the new one. I said that the LPA was all encompassing, and the fact that I was not consulted at anytime about the new account and money being transferred from the current one. The bank manager wouldn't see me, and I spent the next few days on the phone talking to Nat West who said that under no circumstances was I allowed access, and that my father agreed to open a new account. Now, I'm not disputing the fact that he did agree, but as the bank are saying that only my father can have access, he is housebound, partially sighted, with no computer to access online banking, means the money (£4,000) is just sat in limbo. I also live 200 miles away from my father, so access to his branch is not easy for me.
This was seven days ago, I have no idea where the money is. My father has had no correspondence in terms of an account number, and I seem to be getting nowhere with them. The fact that they emptied at least 80% of his current account is making me concerned that my father will not be able to meet his bills that are paid via the current account.
The bank are being downright rude, obstructive, it's almost tantamount to theft. What can I do? Help please.
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Comments
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The fact that LPAs have been registered does not prevent donors making their own decisions provided that they have mental capacity.
The bank moved the money on father's say so by phone. If father still has mental capacity then he can give instructions for the account to be closed. I hope that he wasn't persuaded to commit money for a long period. If father lacks capacity then the POA must be recognised.
"Helpful Banking" indeed!0 -
Thanks. NatWest joins my list of 'never deal with' banks (not that they have any accounts worth a light anyway).Time has moved on (much quicker than it used to - or so it seems at my age) and my previous advice on residential telephony has been or is now gradually being overtaken by changes in the retail market. Hence, I have now deleted links to my previous 'pearls of wisdom'. I sincerely hope they helped save some of you money.0
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The only way to deal with this sort of situation is to write to each bank advising them that you hold the LPA AND that you believe that you father is no longer of full mental capacity, and make it clear that they will be treading on very dangerous ground if they take instructions from him without referring to you.
Ideally, you should enclose a letter signed by your father instructing them to consult you on all matters.
And complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service about their refusal to accept your authority and, if you wish, their taking instructions from someone whose mental capacity they should have been aware was diminished.
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/ - it's easy!0 -
The FOS wont be able to do anything at present.
The OP needs to follow the banks complaints procedure first:
https://www.natwest.com/secure/global/contact_us/complaints_procedure.htmIm an ex employee RBS GroupHowever Any Opinion Given On MSE Is Strictly My Own0 -
So NatWest think your father lacks mental capacity to deal with his current account but can make savings decisions? You need to explain to them that you don't have PoA for one account, you have PoA for all your father's affairs.
According to the BBC this month (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14952378) "The Office of the Public Guardian advises that if bank branches don't accept power of attorneys the issue should be taken to head office. If that does not work, the case can be referred to the financial ombudsman who can help resolve individual complaints"
You should be able to find someone at NatWest's Head Office who specialises in PoA, and they should be able to put your branch straight.0 -
The law (?Mental Health Act) backing LPAs says that the donor may continue to act independently if he so wishes. In fact I don't believe there's a way of preventing this. So the bank have done no wrong - and it's arguable they would have done wrong in asking your permission. It's a fine tightrope for them.
That's not to say they haven't handled the subsequent situation badly (which is odd as I found Natwest the best and most efficient in handling LPAs). You need to go through the complaints procedure - I'd be surprised if it got as far as the FOS0 -
How does the bank know that he lacks capacity? The fact that an LPA has been used does not necessarily mean that donor lacks capacity. As I wrote previously a donor with mental capacity can still act for themselves. The bank is only at fault if it is aware that the donor lacks capacity.So NatWest think your father lacks mental capacity to deal with his current account but can make savings decisions?
"What to do if you are acting for a person and their mental capacity changes
If you will be acting on someone’s behalf through any of the below means you should tell the bank if the person’s mental capacity changes in a way that may impact upon their ability to manage their own financial affairs. The bank may require confirmation from a doctor or suitably qualified professional regarding the change of capacity."
http://www.bba.org.uk/download/6161
It does however seem that the bank has been unhelpful in dealing with the issue once it was brought to its attention.0 -
Of course they have. It's predatory behaviour by people looking for a sale to meet their targets, picking on a vulnerable victim - and he won't be the only one.So the bank have done no wrong
They're in no position to tell him he's got too much money in his current account. Does he understand that it's only a sales call, or does he think he's breaking some sort of rule? Are they sure?"It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis0 -
Do the accounts for which you hold power of attorney show in your own Natwest online banking? Or can you print out a mini-statement? This might show which account the money's gone to, a first step to getting PoA added.
And/or can you set up online banking for and with your father so his accounts can be managed online? The T&C may make it clear whether someone operating under Power of Attorney is allowed to sit at a computer to access online banking under direction of the donor, or they may not. (Lots of disabled people need help to use a computer so the scenario isn't entirely unreasonable!)
Either your father has the capacity to agree to PoA being added to this new account, or he did not have the capacity to open this account in the first place. If the latter then you may want to consider becoming his appointee. If the former, get yourself added.0 -
They've not done wrong in opening a savings account at the Donor's request (even if he was pushed into it).The law (?Mental Health Act) backing LPAs says that the donor may continue to act independently if he so wishes. In fact I don't believe there's a way of preventing this. So the bank have done no wrong
But they have done wrong in refusing the Attorney access to it. The OP is entitled to act for his/her father in all matters.0
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