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  • FIRST POST
    21flames
    Double glazing sales job smells fishy
    • #1
    • 6th Aug 11, 12:53 PM
    Double glazing sales job smells fishy 6th Aug 11 at 12:53 PM
    I have been offered a job training to sell double glazing etc for a home improvements company.

    I have worked for a similar company before but not in sales, so I sort of know what they are like.

    I will explain what happened.

    Any advise from people in sales or who have worked in double glazing sales would be much appreciated.

    First off I rang and got an interview the next day.

    I prepared for the interview, by researching the company and services etc and answers to questions about myself I may be asked.

    When I turned up I met the guy and basically just filled out some details and as I was doing that he just asked what I had done before and told me I would be trained to go on pre booked appointments to sell.

    He said that when the customers book the appointments they are told they will be offered a 12 month price and a buy today, so it makes the sales guys job easier.

    I asked if there was a basic he said it was £200 a week self employed.

    He then went on to give me an example of a sale and the commission rate I could earn, using around £8500. I asked if this was based on anything and he said no just a random figure.

    He then broke it down saying I could start at list price and the give between 10 and 35 percent discount, this is not sounding good, obviously I'm going to be going in way to high and then pressure selling?

    He then said the price was based on a full house of windows, so he contradicted himself.

    He then said the first few sales I would do would only be for just a few windows. He also said he aims to get each sales guy 15 appointments a week. So basically he was just dangling a carrot.

    Then he said when I'm trained if I come off the basic the commission rate would double, which sounds dodgy to me and that basically I could be relaxing at home and they would call with an appointment for me.

    He then basically just offered me to start Monday, didn't say to bring anything or give me anything to take home or what my hours would be etc.

    I can't find a lot out about the company, apart from about 6 reviews. The 3 good ones sound like someone who works for the company have written them, the other half are bad saying they come in with a stupid price and try and pressure sell and are more expensive than there competition.

    It doesn't look good to me as I know people don't want to buy on the day or be pressured, so I'm not even sure whether or not to try it.

    They are not a national company.

    Any advise would be much appreciated.

    Thank you
Page 1
    • t0rt0ise
    • By t0rt0ise 6th Aug 11, 1:00 PM
    • 2,926 Posts
    • 1,792 Thanks
    t0rt0ise
    • #2
    • 6th Aug 11, 1:00 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Aug 11, 1:00 PM
    Sounds like any double glazing sale job to me. If you really don't like the idea then you shouldn't do sales.. I wouldn't either.
    • SailorSam
    • By SailorSam 6th Aug 11, 1:19 PM
    • 21,190 Posts
    • 36,785 Thanks
    SailorSam
    • #3
    • 6th Aug 11, 1:19 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Aug 11, 1:19 PM
    I sold DG for about a year and hated it, i'd been working in an office and got made redundant and it was a case of any job is better than signing-on.
    I was with one of the top names and we were commission only. We got 17.5% of the sale, then in the summer a further 2.5% of our commission; then at Christmas another 2.5% of our commission. What that meant though whenever you packed in and left you were going to lose out on these bonuses, they were always paid behind,
    When we were in peoples houses we were probably more honest than most, we were able to offer a 15% discount if it was a bigger order, and a further 10% if they signed up today. The only other discounts we gave came out of our commission, we were always under pressure to get sales so it wasn't unusual if you were having a bad month to come clean with a customer and say, look i'm getting this much if you order, i'll split it with you.
    But then it comes down to the point you're working for nothing, however the good pushy salesmen were making good money, The rest of the sales force like me were knocking on hundreds of doors every week just waiting to hit the one who said, oh yes come in we were just about to buy this. .......... YAY it's Christmas.
    Liverpool is one of the wonders of Britain,
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    • browneyedbazzi
    • By browneyedbazzi 6th Aug 11, 1:27 PM
    • 3,233 Posts
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    browneyedbazzi
    • #4
    • 6th Aug 11, 1:27 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Aug 11, 1:27 PM
    If you do decide to go for the job make sure you do a bit of reading on the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading regs. There are firms out there that train their staff to do things that fall foul of the regs and you may end up in some legal trouble.

    Have a look at

    http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/protection

    Things like starting with a really high list price then knocking off huge discounts every time can be a misleading practice under the regs and I know of firms that have been prosecuted for it.
    • Russe11
    • By Russe11 6th Aug 11, 1:35 PM
    • 1,162 Posts
    • 420 Thanks
    Russe11
    • #5
    • 6th Aug 11, 1:35 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Aug 11, 1:35 PM
    The hard sell has been around for years and will be around for years to come, they operate in this way because its a proven system of running business.

    What ever job you do theres always somthing unethical about it, ripping customers off happens in every retail and service industry.

    Those that can sell earn good money, those that can't sell don't.

    The "job" being offered to you sounds a lot better than what a lot of companies would offer in the fact they are giving you £200 a week with out having to of made them any business in the first place.
    • dseventy
    • By dseventy 6th Aug 11, 1:39 PM
    • 1,169 Posts
    • 1,925 Thanks
    dseventy
    • #6
    • 6th Aug 11, 1:39 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Aug 11, 1:39 PM
    I asked if there was a basic he said it was £200 a week self employed.
    Originally posted by 21flames
    Given this will be your only "job" it will be hard to argue that you are "self employed".

    I did Double glazing for a few years "back in the day" and did very well out of it.

    We did not do the "today price" crap or pushy. I measured up and sent a written quote through days later. Customers much prefered this, we also let people bring in measurements.

    I made quite a lot of money. I was responsible though for mis-measures or order issues (like ordering a red door instead of a white one), that was the only downside.

    D70
    How about no longer being masochistic?
    How about remembering your divinity?
    How about unabashedly bawling your eyes out?
    How about not equating death with stopping?
  • 21flames
    • #7
    • 6th Aug 11, 2:00 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Aug 11, 2:00 PM
    Given this will be your only "job" it will be hard to argue that you are "self employed".

    What do you mean by that mate?

    Also SailorSam......The commission rate they are giving is 6 percent on basic then 12 comm only and that's before any discount, Which on a few windows or a door can't be a lot, also am I right in saying you didn't have pre book appointments, you where generating your own leads?

    Might just go on Monday and see what happens
    Last edited by 21flames; 06-08-2011 at 2:03 PM.
    • browneyedbazzi
    • By browneyedbazzi 6th Aug 11, 3:28 PM
    • 3,233 Posts
    • 5,575 Thanks
    browneyedbazzi
    • #8
    • 6th Aug 11, 3:28 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Aug 11, 3:28 PM
    The hard sell has been around for years and will be around for years to come, they operate in this way because its a proven system of running business.

    What ever job you do theres always somthing unethical about it, ripping customers off happens in every retail and service industry.

    Those that can sell earn good money, those that can't sell don't.

    The "job" being offered to you sounds a lot better than what a lot of companies would offer in the fact they are giving you £200 a week with out having to of made them any business in the first place.
    Originally posted by Russe11
    The consumer landscape, including legislation, has changed a bit since the bad old days - pressure sales and 'ripping' off customers isn't just poor practice anymore, it can be criminal behaviour. I know a few guys who have been sent down the steps at crown court for it.
  • erdd2
    • #9
    • 6th Aug 11, 3:38 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Aug 11, 3:38 PM
    The consumer landscape, including legislation, has changed a bit since the bad old days - pressure sales and 'ripping' off customers isn't just poor practice anymore, it can be criminal behaviour. I know a few guys who have been sent down the steps at crown court for it.
    Originally posted by browneyedbazzi
    great to hear that!

    Some 20 years after first replacing windows, I could not believe old practises of pressure were still applied...this was same company....older and wiser I resisted the pressure and was rather entertained by the "lengths" this guy was prepared to go to.....even when visitors arrived he wanted to continue his "plug".....in the end I asked him to close the door behind him or cough up for attending my soiree!
    • dseventy
    • By dseventy 6th Aug 11, 5:52 PM
    • 1,169 Posts
    • 1,925 Thanks
    dseventy
    Given this will be your only "job" it will be hard to argue that you are "self employed".

    What do you mean by that mate?
    Originally posted by 21flames
    It means that you won't be self employed, you are actually and employee.

    You have to satisfy certain criteria to be S/E and its the HMRC that decide if you are S/E or employed, see the questions here :

    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-status/index.htm#1

    D70
    How about no longer being masochistic?
    How about remembering your divinity?
    How about unabashedly bawling your eyes out?
    How about not equating death with stopping?
  • ILW
    It doesn't look good to me as I know people don't want to buy on the day or be pressured, so I'm not even sure whether or not to try it.
    Originally posted by 21flames
    If you go in with that attitude, you will fail. Sorry.
  • 21flames
    If you go in with that attitude, you will fail. Sorry.

    I can go in positive, it just sounds to good to be true that they are promising all these leads and that I can make all this money.

    I suppose if the customer already knows they are going to be given a buy now price they will be expecting you to push for the sale.

    Perhaps they will surprise me, perhaps I will fail, we will see.
    • dmliverpool
    • By dmliverpool 7th Aug 11, 9:58 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 93 Thanks
    dmliverpool
    Given this will be your only "job" it will be hard to argue that you are "self employed".

    I did Double glazing for a few years "back in the day" and did very well out of it.

    We did not do the "today price" crap or pushy. I measured up and sent a written quote through days later. Customers much prefered this, we also let people bring in measurements.

    I made quite a lot of money. I was responsible though for mis-measures or order issues (like ordering a red door instead of a white one), that was the only downside.

    D70
    Originally posted by dseventy
    Agreed. They are only doing it as self employed so they can end your services once you slow down with the suggestive bullying salesman tactics they use.
    The harder one works the luckier one gets!
  • 21flames
    but after reading on the hmrc web page that was posted it is clear that I shouldn't be self employed.

    Should I discuss this and ask to be on the books?
  • ILW
    They are looking for "one call closers" and you will most likely find that the basic is deducted from any commision paid. If you are not the type to be very very pushy and virtually refuse to leave someones home unless they give you an order, then it will not work out for you. All depends how thick skinned you are.
    Having said that, if you are good you can earn very good money.
  • 21flames
    First day went well, already learnt how you set it up before you quote, sure there are lots more persuasive techniques to learn, going out on leads with the manager tomorrow, so will see how it goes.

    How could they take my basic out of my commission?

    They say that when I'm trained, if I come off the basic the comm rate will double.
  • ILW
    Good luck

    Did it myself for around 5 years and you can earn well.

    Just get used to not listeneing when a punter says "no" or "we need to think about it".
  • miss duke
    Glad to hear that the first day went well. Hope it continues to go well for you.
    • dibuzz
    • By dibuzz 8th Aug 11, 6:29 PM
    • 1,938 Posts
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    dibuzz
    At least it doesn't sound like the company my son tried. It all sounded ok until the first day when all the new lads were taken aside and given instructions ending in "oh by the way you have to buy your own samples" The samples were over £700. Needless to say he didn't go back.
    14 Projects in 2014 - in memory of Soulie - 2/14
  • 21flames
    Thanks people

    Going to take a while to learn how to price everything up, the windows seem simple enough.

    He said I can go out on my own after going with him a few times........I don't think I will be ready then.

    So when a punter says no just keep talking/ offering?
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