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  • FIRST POST
    Rince
    Tax credits renewal help - childcare vouchers
    • #1
    • 17th May 09, 12:34 PM
    Tax credits renewal help - childcare vouchers 17th May 09 at 12:34 PM
    Hi, I'm trying to fill in the Tax credits renewal form and where i've got to put the income from employment figure in, i'm confused as to what to put. I've got my P60 and would normally put that figure in, but i've read several times on this forum that if you claim the childcare vouchers from your employer, which I do (the maximun £243 Busy bee vouchers) then you can deduct this from the value of income from your P60, as it's classed as a salary sacrifice.

    The £243 gets taken out of my wages before tax is paid.

    Before I do this I want to make sure it is correct. I've been on the Tax credits website and looked under the part about how to work out what figure to use as total income and there is a section on what you can deduct and these childcare vouchers aren't mentioned.

    So before I put in an income figure, can anyone advise if you can / cannot deduct the amount of childcare vouchers. Thanks.
Page 1
    • di3004
    • By di3004 17th May 09, 12:51 PM
    • 42,529 Posts
    • 56,679 Thanks
    di3004
    • #2
    • 17th May 09, 12:51 PM
    • #2
    • 17th May 09, 12:51 PM
    Hi, I'm trying to fill in the Tax credits renewal form and where i've got to put the income from employment figure in, i'm confused as to what to put. I've got my P60 and would normally put that figure in, but i've read several times on this forum that if you claim the childcare vouchers from your employer, which I do (the maximun £243 Busy bee vouchers) then you can deduct this from the value of income from your P60, as it's classed as a salary sacrifice.

    The £243 gets taken out of my wages before tax is paid.

    Before I do this I want to make sure it is correct. I've been on the Tax credits website and looked under the part about how to work out what figure to use as total income and there is a section on what you can deduct and these childcare vouchers aren't mentioned.

    So before I put in an income figure, can anyone advise if you can / cannot deduct the amount of childcare vouchers. Thanks.
    Originally posted by Rince

    Hi there

    You can do this by phone as well, we do, its a lot quicker and you can then tell them the extras then, such as vouchers etc or whatever they need to know. I think its a lot easier to explain this on the phone.
    Good luck.
    The one and only "Dizzy Di"
  • Rince
    • #3
    • 17th May 09, 1:03 PM
    • #3
    • 17th May 09, 1:03 PM
    Hi, yes I wil actually do it over the phone, but i'm trying to find out where it tells you, you can take off the childcare voucher from the total income. cheers
    • di3004
    • By di3004 17th May 09, 3:07 PM
    • 42,529 Posts
    • 56,679 Thanks
    di3004
    • #4
    • 17th May 09, 3:07 PM
    • #4
    • 17th May 09, 3:07 PM
    Hi, yes I wil actually do it over the phone, but i'm trying to find out where it tells you, you can take off the childcare voucher from the total income. cheers
    Originally posted by Rince

    Hi there

    Not too sure on that to be honest, they should be able to confirm this to you on the phone as well, and hopefully someone will post up soon to help you here, all the best.
    The one and only "Dizzy Di"
  • Rince
    • #5
    • 19th May 09, 7:26 AM
    • #5
    • 19th May 09, 7:26 AM
    Bump .......

    When I spoke to a woman at Tac credits, she didn't seem to know and said just put whats on my P60. Anyone know ? Thanks.
  • longhotbath
    • #6
    • 19th May 09, 12:41 PM
    • #6
    • 19th May 09, 12:41 PM
    Hi - a senior advisor at tax credits told me to put the p60 figure and the salary sacrifice has already been taken into account on the p60 letter.

    Check back through your payslips as the salary letters from your employers.
    Last edited by longhotbath; 19-05-2009 at 12:41 PM. Reason: spelling
  • sarflee
    • #7
    • 19th May 09, 3:33 PM
    • #7
    • 19th May 09, 3:33 PM
    That is correct! It is a salary sacrifice, therefore the amount for the vouchers are deducted from the salary before it is taxed, therefore the amounts shown on your P60 will be after deduction of the vouchers.
  • Rince
    • #8
    • 20th May 09, 9:40 AM
    • #8
    • 20th May 09, 9:40 AM
    That is correct! It is a salary sacrifice, therefore the amount for the vouchers are deducted from the salary before it is taxed, therefore the amounts shown on your P60 will be after deduction of the vouchers.
    Originally posted by sarflee
    Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm still confused as the vouchers are taken out of my salary before it's taxed, but my P60 shows my gross earnings, not £2916 less (243 x 12).
  • mitchaa
    • #9
    • 20th May 09, 9:52 AM
    • #9
    • 20th May 09, 9:52 AM
    If there is no mention of it on their site, i would then assume that it is full P60 earnings. You cant base actions on just thought.

  • Rince
    Exactly. I will ask again when I phone in my earnings. I only asked because i'd read on this site that you could deduct the vouchers. Will let people know what they say. Thanks.
  • sarflee
    The details on your P60 are the ones used by the tax office to check if you have paid the correct amount of tax. If the taxable pay showing on your P60 is before deduction of the voucher's this is wrong because this would work out that you have paid too little tax.

    Check your wage slips. They should show gross pay to date and taxable pay to date. The gross pay to date will be before any deductions, however the taxable pay to date will be after deducting vouchers, pension payments etc but before deduction of tax or NI. It is the total taxable pay amount that should be shown on your P60. If it isn't I would have a word with your wages department.
  • taffy699
    Hi there. Following on from this I phoned up to renew my benefits and have been told that as Child care vouchers are a salary sacrifice scheme I have to send a load of items to a specific department in Liverpool (eg New contract!?!?!?!) I haven't had any changes in employment and this scheme is the same as it was last year. Has anyone else had this request??? Cheers
    • mark13
    • By mark13 2nd Jun 09, 10:26 AM
    • 278 Posts
    • 128 Thanks
    mark13
    We are having the same problem, having opted for childcare vouchers as a salary sacrifice.
    I spoke to the tax credit people, and was asked for all manner of documentation, original contract of employment ( that was some 20 yrs ago) agreement between employer and voucher provider, before and after salary sacrifice pay slips... grrrrrr.... nothing has changed other than taking a salary sacrifice... very very beurocratic... as far a I can see there is no where on the form to specify hoew many vouchers are being claimed which can be offset against CTC.
  • nakedmanoncrack
    We are having the same problem, having opted for childcare vouchers as a salary sacrifice.
    I spoke to the tax credit people, and was asked for all manner of documentation, original contract of employment ( that was some 20 yrs ago) agreement between employer and voucher provider, before and after salary sacrifice pay slips... grrrrrr.... nothing has changed other than taking a salary sacrifice... very very beurocratic... as far a I can see there is no where on the form to specify hoew many vouchers are being claimed which can be offset against CTC.
    Originally posted by mark13
    Same here, just off the phone to them.
    They are wanting documents which don't even exist as far as I know 'agreement between employer and voucher provider'? Never seen such a thing. I can produce my original contract of employment but like you it was from over 20 yrs ago. Total nonsense, how exactly are we meant to claim? Beyond a joke.
    • KevinG
    • By KevinG 6th Jun 09, 9:15 PM
    • 1,071 Posts
    • 2,189 Thanks
    KevinG
    Gosh this is confusing. I hadn't thought about childcare vouchers in relation to a Tax Credits claim. Perhaps someone could have a read of this and work it out - I would if I didn't have to go and cook dinner!

    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childcare/interaction-tc-cv.htm

    I assumed that the P60 taxable pay figure was correct, but having just checked my wife's P60, the taxable pay has not been reduced to take account of the vouchers, only her pension contributions, which seems wrong, as the vouchers appear on her payslips.

    If and when HMRC deign to send us our renewal pack I'll have to work out what to put on it.
  • acer99
    I have wasted half a day now trying to find out the answer to this question and getting nowhere. Just tried phoning the tax credits helpline twice but after listening to all the automated options, I'm told to call back later because they are too busy and promptly cut off. That sums up the whole thing to me! Last year I asked a question about my ISA interest and was told the wrong answer. I honestly believe that a more complicated system coulkd not be developed and that nobody in the whole country actually fully understands tax credits. So after my rant, my question remains:

    Which salary figure do I declare? P60 or P60 minus salary sacrifice (which was for childcare vouchers).

    Any help or links to official documentation (which I can't find) greatly appreciated.
    • lorelai34
    • By lorelai34 26th Jul 09, 7:00 PM
    • 138 Posts
    • 79 Thanks
    lorelai34
    You would need to declare the p60 figure not the p60 minus the salary sacrifice. The tax credit office need to see documentation relating to the salary sacrifice so if they haven't seen it then you can't make the dedction.
    • KevinG
    • By KevinG 26th Jul 09, 9:09 PM
    • 1,071 Posts
    • 2,189 Thanks
    KevinG
    You would need to declare the p60 figure not the p60 minus the salary sacrifice. The tax credit office need to see documentation relating to the salary sacrifice so if they haven't seen it then you can't make the dedction.
    Originally posted by lorelai34
    That does seem to be the consensus of opinion. The link I posted was all about how the vouchers can affect your claim for childcare costs, not what income figure you declare and this seems to be the reason they need to know about them. Basically, if you pay for childcare using vouchers, even though you have sacrificed salary to get them, you will not be deemed to have paid for the childcare so will not get help with those costs from Tax Credits. In my case, although we have received childcare vouchers in the past it is irrelevant for Tax Credits purposes since we are not entitled to help with childcare costs as only my wife works more than 16 hours a week. All IMHO of course - I might have got this completely wrong!
  • subsoniccoyote
    You declare the total income on your P60. The total figure will already have the salary sacrifice deducted. The P60 total only shows the taxable amount.

    You need to send the details to HMRC so that they know about the salary sacrifice scheme, I don't know the full reasons why they want the information but they do.
    • KevinG
    • By KevinG 27th Jul 09, 9:50 AM
    • 1,071 Posts
    • 2,189 Thanks
    KevinG
    You declare the total income on your P60. The total figure will already have the salary sacrifice deducted. The P60 total only shows the taxable amount.
    Originally posted by subsoniccoyote
    Not true, as several have posted. I don't know why the vouchers are not deducted from the P60 figure, but they aren't, I've checked.

    You need to send the details to HMRC so that they know about the salary sacrifice scheme, I don't know the full reasons why they want the information but they do.
    Originally posted by subsoniccoyote
    See my previous post for the reason. It's only relevant if you are claiming for the childcare costs.
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