civil enforcement - country court letter

braquo99 · 13 February 2016 at 6:48PM

Hi all followed all the advice and been ignoring letters from CEL since 2013.

Now received a claim form letter from County Court Business Centre.

I have responded to say i will appeal but should i do anything? i didnt think these guys took things this far from what i read? maybe im the unlucky one.

I dont have any of the letters they sent me and its so long ago i cant remember what it was i did to get the fine - i do know the car park in question doesnt exist any longer i think its a supermarket now...

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks

Redx · 13 February 2016 at 7:07PM

yep , read the forum lol (there are several similar threads this week and parking prankster blogged about it too , you are not alone)

and use advanced edit to alter the thread title , its County , not Country , no R

see this thread for starters

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5411283

and also sign this petition and get others to do the same too

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/111925

to get some changes made

ps:- its not a fine , its an invoice , a speculative invoice

they have always had the option to take you to court, for 6 years following the incident, under small claims court procedures in the county court , or via Salford or Northampton centres

the advice from march 2013 was to appeal a PPC parking charge in england and wales, not ignore it

you can get the required paperwork by asking them for it via the court system in the court due process, after acknowledging the claim online, acknowledge only, do not put any defence in yet , follow the procedures laid out by bargepole in the link in post #1 of the NEWBIES sticky thread , or the pranksters court guide book

here is pranksters latest blog

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/civil-enforcement-limited-carry-out.html

the Barry Beavis saga started 3 years ago, and finished 3 months ago

Coupon-mad · 13 February 2016 at 8:40PM

braquo99 wrote: »

Hi all followed all the advice and been ignoring letters from CEL since 2013.

Now received a claim form letter from County Court Business Centre.

I have responded to say i will appeal but should i do anything? i didnt think these guys took things this far from what i read? maybe im the unlucky one.

I dont have any of the letters they sent me and its so long ago i cant remember what it was i did to get the fine - i do know the car park in question doesnt exist any longer i think its a supermarket now...

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks

Is the claimant CEL or DEAL?

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5398575

http://legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php?61584-DEAL-CEL-Shwarts-Court-Claim-Won

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/co-op-confirm-they-have-not-cut-deal.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/cel-turn-up-to-court-50-cases-of.html

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?446015-I-am-in-court-22nd-May!-CEAL-DEL-help!-**Discontinued-**

Both CEL and DEAL have a habit of not turning up for a hearing (and trying to trick people into not attending too). But you need to defend this robustly. I'd say first of all read the NEWBIES thread post #1 which is mostly about appealing - skip that - but read the lower bit about small claims court. The links there will help you with your defence and with your understanding of what YOU MUST DO.

I have responded to say i will appeal but should i do anything?

Obviously, or you will lose by default. You don't mean 'appeal' you mean defend. Read this advice as well:

https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/categories/200679189-Small-Claims-Court

I really, really hope you just acknowledged the claim and left the defence box COMPLETELY BLANK? What date did you get the papers? You have 28 days to submit a defence from service of those court papers, if you have acknowledged the claim.

braquo99 · 13 February 2016 at 11:22PM

guys massive thank you for reading my post and responding!

I received it on 05/02 (well only received it today as the letters they send and the claim form are not being set to my address)

Sorry yes, I submitted the online form to say I will defend this.

I will write to CEL now and post in the morning asking what it is they are seeking claims for and on whose behalf?. Should I then wait for their response and then write again asking for info on signage etc? will I get time to do all this within the 28 days limit? I guess I don't have long left now.

Coupon-mad · 14 February 2016 at 2:36AM

I will write to CEL now and post in the morning asking what it is they are seeking claims for and on whose behalf?

You mean a Part 18 request, yes you could and make sure you ask for all three Notice to Keepers and all pictures of signage as well as proof that they were authorised by the landowner. You don't need to ask 'on whose behalf' because the parking firm is CEL and the claim is from CEL (not DEAL).

Should I then wait for their response and then write again asking for info on signage etc? will I get time to do all this within the 28 days limit?

Ask CEL everything you want to know/see in one go - see 'Part 18 requests' in the BMPA link given already. Do NOT wait for a response, you can't miss court paperwork deadlines! By acknowledging the claim, as long as you left the defence box completely blank (not even 'TBA'), you have 28 days from the date of service of the papers to then submit your defence.

braquo99 · 14 February 2016 at 1:06PM

Thank you again,

Ok so i will complete a letter (section 18) and send to CEL. If i understand right what i have read, they also must respond within 14 days of the county court letter i received - is that correct or do they have 14 days from when i posted the letter?

Once i send that, i still have what ever is left of the 28 days to then complete the defense box...

What if i dont get a response from CEL?(would/should i write that in the claim box?)

Or what if i do, but it doesnt really help in my claim? eg they have photos of my car in the car park, they show that there were signs up etc?

The fact is the car park isnt there anymore so how do i know if there were signs up and legit? is it too late to then pay the fine?

Redx · 14 February 2016 at 1:29PM

CEL have to prove their case because they are the claimant, so any defence of yours would seek to destroy or refute their claims, so you would check if their claim had locus standii (a contract to pursue claims in court, or if they owned the land, which they wont, - that the signage met the BPA CoP , that any paperwork met the relevant laws like POFA2012 , that the photos have not been doctored etc etc)

there is no "fine", never was and never will be , you need to start using the correct legal terms and the word "fine" is not one of them , because of all the things it may be , its not a fine, its an invoice , a speculative invoice , so use correct terminology and not slang words as this is a real court case so you need to understand what is going on- I even told you its not a fine in post #2 , so attention to detail please

there may be the chance of settlement at some point, which may or may not be the original charge that they put into the invoice, but they now have costs in starting a court claim so I doubt they will settle for less than the invoice charge plus costs

this is a real court case so treat it like one, read and learn , query everything , accept nothing , read the guides and learn from others in a similar situation or who have been through this process before

Coupon-mad · 14 February 2016 at 8:18PM

You need to read what others have used for a defence at this early stage then you will have an idea what to set out as your defence points. You MUST state why the case differs from the Beavis case which you can find on other threads here and in the NEWBIES thread.

You appear to be panicking when we've got loads of threads just like this already on the forum, plus examples of defences linked in the NEWBIES thread under 'small claims'. Show us what you put together as a defence after you've read loads of other court threads. There are lots of UKPC ones around here at the moment, don't just look for CEL defences.

Coupon-mad · 20 February 2016 at 12:39AM

Just to add a recent example (long) defence for CEL.

Some might NOT relevant for you (e.g. if yours was a free car park you can't have the part about tariffs/Pay and Display and a 'simple finacial contract') but plenty of this is right for your defence - and shows you what to put at the start (and at the end as POPLA has not been tried yet):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=70167855#post70167855

Also read 70SRG's thread here and send him/her a private message to compare notes & get confidence together about what to do:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5415363

HTH

braquo99 · 17 October 2016 at 3:17PM

hi all, just wanted to give an update to this as i notice you dont see many replies seeing how people got on...

I appealed to the County Court and copied one of the appeals i had found on this board and i never heard about it again - no response / reply etc etc. And this was back in Feb so im guessing (fingers crossed) this has gone away

Thanks for all your advice and help

Umkomaas · 17 October 2016 at 4:48PM

Thanks for update, as you say, frustratingly many don't come back to let us know of outcomes, despite regulars giving so much of their own time to help a total stranger with his/her problem.

Normally you should have received some form of communication from the court and/or the PPC. You haven't changed address since you received your last communication from them by any chance?

My advice is to telephone the court (Northampton), who are very helpful, and ask for an update on the case. Do let us know how it goes.

civil enforcement - country court letter

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