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Part 18 Gladstones/Millennium Swansea

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Hi,
I would appreciate any feedback on my part 18 request to Gladstones who are acting on behalf of Millennium in Swansea.

I’ll post it in my second post, first the facts:

The driver of my vehicle (2 people are insured on it but others drive it using their own insurance) was parked in a petrol garage forecourt in Swansea for about 13 minutes (or so?), unaware of the poor and hidden signage from Millennium. This was back in July 2015 when Millennium were part of BPA. The signs (found after the PCN was given) allow parking for 10 minutes without a permit, a windscreen ticket was given after 11 minutes for “no permit displayed” for £100. (In retrospect the driver thinks they saw the ticket giver grinning at them as they returned to the vehicle.) There are also very large signs at this location simply saying “no parking” (which the driver also did not see, although they should have!)

The driver unfortunately did not appeal and POPLA was not offered. Then a “notice to owner” was sent to me as keeper of the vehicle 3 months later for £150. I wrote to them pointing out that they had not complied with POFA and had no cause against me as keeper.

Debt recovery letters arrived & ignored, varying amounts.

LBC from Gladstones arrived Sept 2016. I entered into email correspondence with them, first pointing out the lack of POFA, then asking for many points to be clarified to align with practice direction (basis of claim and why I am liable, what was the action was based on – contractual charge, breach of contract, trespass, how the amount of money has been calculated and increased, and I proposed ADR)

Nothing from Gladstones until April when they sent 3 photos of my vehicle’s windscreen (no signage in the pictures because there is none visible from where the car is parked) and an email with lines like “Further evidence will be provided in our Client's witness statement should the matter proceed to court” and “The parking charge was £100 on issue. As you did not pay the charge within the 28 days allowed you are in breach of contract. Breach of contract entitles the innocent party to damages as of right in addition to the parking charge incurred. As you didn’t pay the charge the matter was passed to us and the debt has, as a result of this referral risen as my client’s staff have spent time and material facilitating the recovery of this debt. This time could have been better spent on other elements of their business. My client believes the costs associated with such time spent were incurred naturally as a direct result of your breach and as such claims them as a damage. The costs are a pre-determined and nominal contribution to the actual losses. Alternatively, my client does have a right to costs pursuant to the sign (i.e. the contract).”

They also say “As our client is not a member of the British Parking Association an appeal to POPLA is not possible. You had the opportunity to appeal, yet didn’t in the requisite time frame. In any event, had you appealed on the same grounds as you now do, it would have been refused. And, irrespective of whether any appeal was made or not, it would not impact on the lawfulness of the parking charge.”

I replied in less than 7 days requesting the same details as before (but not actually detailing them, referring to the correspondence below). They replied saying their LBC was compliant with practice direction. I replied politely in less than 7 days detailing the information I required.

NEXT THING – COURT PAPERS.

“The driver of the vehicle incurred the parking charges for breaching the terms of parking on the land at… The defendant was driving the vehicle and/or is the Keeper of the Vehicle. The claimant claims £125 for parking charges/ damages and indemnity costs if applicable….”
«1345678

Comments

  • LucyBea
    LucyBea Posts: 37 Forumite
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    The court papers are dated 11 May 2017, I did MCOL before the deadline. Will the court view it as unreasonable to make a part 18 request so long after? As a member of the public it does take time to look into these things – perhaps I should make mention of that?

    Also I’m not sure if I should remove my (rude-ish) reference to previous correspondence, but I think it is relevant if I am building the case that Gladstones behave unreasonably.

    The last bit in capitals, does that go with the preliminary request?
    Many thanks indeed, any suggestions would be gratefully received....


    Dear Gladstones Solicitors,

    With regard to your client, Millennium Door and Event Security LTD, PCN…. Case….

    My last four requests for extremely basic information regarding your client’s cause against me have been ignored. As court papers have been served with no response to my last request to conform to the PRACTICE DIRECTION ON PRE-ACTION CONDUCT and I still do not fully understand your client’s case against me, I maintain that you are wasting my time and that of the court.

    Thus having looked further into the rules governing pre-trial stage of court proceedings, I am making a FORMAL REQUEST for this information under PART 18 OF THE CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES (CPR). This is my preliminary request.

    As a body of legal professionals, I am sure you recognise I need this information, which is necessary and proportionate, to prepare my defence.

    1. What is the basis of your client’s claim?
    (a) If it is breach of contract, please provide evidence of this contract (and how I, as keeper of this vehicle, entered into this contract)
    (b) If this contract was conveyed by signs displayed at the location please provide evidence of these signs
    - wording of these signs and various text point sizes, preferably a photo
    -a map showing where they were located at the site on the date the contract was entered into, preferably a photo
    - a map showing where my vehicle was situated on this date in respect to the signs, preferably a photo

    2. Please identify the landowner for ***
    a) What is your client’s legal capacity if not the land-owner or lessee?
    b) Please provide a clear chain of authority from the landowner by way of a written authority contract, deed or lease


    TAKE NOTICE THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ANSWER THE ABOVE REQUEST WITHIN 14 DAYS OF SERVICE OF THE SAME UPON YOU. SERVICE WILL BE DEEMED TO HAVE BEEN EFFECTED ON THE SECOND BUSINESS DAY AFTER POSTING.
  • Lamilad
    Lamilad Posts: 1,412 Forumite
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    If this is related to your other thread. Please post it on there.
  • LucyBea
    LucyBea Posts: 37 Forumite
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    Okay will do.
    Sorry! Having read so many other threads now I wanted to make it more concise to make it easier for other people to read, an give it a more useful title for searches, that's all!
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
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    add a link to your other thread then

    and put MILLENIUM into the drop down forum search box to find other recent ongoing and concluded cases against these sc@mmers

    they also feature on todays parking prankster blog too
  • LucyBea
    LucyBea Posts: 37 Forumite
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    Great thank you I much prefer the sound of that. (Doh!)
    I can't post link as a new user but here are the numbers that seem to define it :o

    showthread.php?t=5651541
  • LucyBea
    LucyBea Posts: 37 Forumite
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    Hello,
    I have added a few bits into my part 18 request (thank you to Loadsofchildren’s thread of a similar case!). Is there anything else anyone thinks I should add? I’m trying to stay “reasonable” and only ask the things I really need to help my defence, and not asking millions of questions for the sake of it. :cool:

    I have put in a sort of explanation for this request taking me so long – it’s 3 weeks since the papers arrived – is that necessary? I have to make my defence in a week so although this information may not arrive in time, if I cover all my bases in the defence, I can use any information they give me for my skeleton/in court? (I’m sort of working to the assumption they will ignore this as they have ignored all my previous requests, but it will help build my case of Gladstones’ unreasonable behaviour.) ;)

    Dear Gladstones Solicitors,
    With regard to your client, Millennium Door and Event Security LTD, PCN…. Case….

    My last four requests for extremely basic information regarding your client’s cause against me have been ignored. As court papers have been served with no response at all to my last request for information and for you to conform to the PRACTICE DIRECTION ON PRE-ACTION CONDUCT I still do not fully understand your client’s case against me.

    As a member of the general public with no legal training I have looked further into the rules governing pre-trial stage of court proceedings, and I am now making a FORMAL REQUEST for this information under PART 18 OF THE CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES (CPR). This is my preliminary request.

    As a body of legal professionals, I am sure you recognise I need this information, which is necessary and proportionate, to prepare my defence.

    1. What is the basis of your client’s claim?
    (a) If it is breach of contract, PLEASE PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF THIS CONTRACT (and how I, as keeper of the vehicle, entered into this contract, especially as your client did not invoke Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012)
    (b) If this contract was conveyed by signs displayed at the location please provide evidence of these signs
    - wording of these signs, size of sign, and height at which it was displayed
    - size of the font used (if there are different fonts on the sign, please provide the font size of each part of the sign)
    (c) Please provide a map or plan showing where signs were located at the site on the date the alleged contract was entered into
    (d) Please provide a map or plan showing where my vehicle was situated on this date in respect to the signs

    2. Please identify the landowner for ***
    a) What is your client’s legal capacity if not the land-owner or lessee?
    b) Please provide a clear chain of authority from the landowner by way of a written authority contract, deed or lease

    3. Please clarify the legal status of “Millennium Parking Services”?
    a) Is it a registered company? If it is claimed that it is the “trading as” name of your client please produce evidence of this
    b) Under what basis is it claimed that your client, the Claimant (Millennium Door and Event Security LTD) is entitled to bring this claim, given that the alleged contract (of which I have no evidence) was with Millennium Parking Services?

    TAKE NOTICE THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ANSWER THE ABOVE REQUEST WITHIN 14 DAYS OF SERVICE OF THE SAME UPON YOU. SERVICE WILL BE DEEMED TO HAVE BEEN EFFECTED ON THE SECOND BUSINESS DAY AFTER EMAILING.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,730 Forumite
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    I have put in a sort of explanation for this request taking me so long – it’s 3 weeks since the papers arrived – is that necessary? I have to make my defence in a week so although this information may not arrive in time, if I cover all my bases in the defence, I can use any information they give me for my skeleton/in court? (I’m sort of working to the assumption they will ignore this as they have ignored all my previous requests, but it will help build my case of Gladstones’ unreasonable behaviour.)

    All sounds perfectly reasonable, as does your part 18 request wording. A good fightback so far.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • LucyBea
    LucyBea Posts: 37 Forumite
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    Thank you Coupon Mad :-)
    I was going to email it as all my Gladstones correspondence has been via email. Is there any reason why this is a bad idea?
    Belt and braces I can post it too?
  • LucyBea
    LucyBea Posts: 37 Forumite
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    And I think I will add:
    I believe this request to be concise, and strictly confined to matters necessary and proportionate to enable me to prepare my own case, as per the Practice Direction. Please be aware that if you fail to provide any of the evidence I have asked for at this time, yet attempt to use it at a later date, I will request the Court to prevent its use.
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