This is just plain wierd.

Cakeguts · 17 April 2017 at 10:37PM

I see today that teachers are complaining that they don't understand the marking system of the new GCSEs. I don't understand their problem. If a child gets 40% in an exam they still get 40% if the mark is called an A* or a 4. It is only the grade name that has changed. So what is the problem? Why is that so difficult to understand? They say that they are worried about the grade boundaries but that doesn't make any difference to the 40% scenario either. If a child is getting stressed by the change of a name of a grade where is that communication of stress coming from? Even if the number of marks awarded is halved for all candidates compared to the old GCSEs it still means that the child will get a mark that is in the right place in comparison to the other candidates. The only change is the name of the grade. I have no idea why that is a) stressful or b) difficult to understand.

marliepanda · 18 April 2017 at 12:48AM

Cakeguts wrote: »

I see today that teachers are complaining that they don't understand the marking system of the new GCSEs. I don't understand their problem. If a child gets 40% in an exam they still get 40% if the mark is called an A* or a 4. It is only the grade name that has changed. So what is the problem? Why is that so difficult to understand? They say that they are worried about the grade boundaries but that doesn't make any difference to the 40% scenario either. If a child is getting stressed by the change of a name of a grade where is that communication of stress coming from? Even if the number of marks awarded is halved for all candidates compared to the old GCSEs it still means that the child will get a mark that is in the right place in comparison to the other candidates. The only change is the name of the grade. I have no idea why that is a) stressful or b) difficult to understand.

Because they haven't told people what the actual boundaries are yet.

So it's a case of 'you have got 40%, and erm, yeah, no idea what that actually is'

That's the problem. They haven't just changed the name. They've changed it and given no indication on how that grade is to be achieved now.

Feebie · 18 April 2017 at 8:24AM

As above. All students have target grades - I am judged on both how many achieve / exceed these grades and how accurate my predictions are . It is incredibly difficult to accurately predict grades without boundaries.

It also does also matter if 40% is a 4 or a 9. If it is a 9, it will inevitably lead to there being very few marks between each grade which doesn't effectively discriminate between candidates' abilities.

Eta. Students' post 16 choices are dependent on grades received so it is important to be able to predict these accurately to give appropriate careers guidance.

peachyprice · 18 April 2017 at 8:38AM

OP, you seem to have the same problems as teachers then, i.e you don't understand the new system.

They have not simply renamed the grades from letters to numbers, there is not a direct correlation, some numbers fall between two letter grades and it still hasn't been decided where the boundaries for the grades will be, except possibly for maths because they were going to use the PPE data but as far as I know haven't passed that on to schools. Then there are the grades of 5, which could be a C or a B and 8 which could be an A or an A*, until the results are out this year teachers are in the dark.

Teachers can no longer be confident that expected grades can be achieved therefore this year pupils have been pushed like crazy because schools have no idea what their new grades are going to be, so even A grade students could come out worse off in the subjects that are using the new system. And no doubt, next year when it's rolled out over all subjects it will be even worse.

Cakeguts · 18 April 2017 at 5:14PM

Perhaps they are going back to the old fairer system where they used percentages to work out the grades? So the top X% get a 9 the next X% get an 8 and so on. It is much easier to work out what grade someone will get from this system because you would be able to tell from the students you were teaching which ones were likely to be in the top 1% and it also means that if there are easier or harder papers the ratios between the grades don't alter. It also calibrates the system so you don't get some years where more people got A*s because the marking got more lenient or the exams were easier. It would also be fairer because exam boards wouldn't be able to "cheat" to get more customers by more lenient marking because only the top X% of marks would ever get a 9 grade.

With this much fairer system some years there were only two or three marks between A level grades but at least everyone knew that the marking was calibrated so that students knew where they stood compared to other students rather than nearly everyone getting an A.

Cakeguts · 18 April 2017 at 5:17PM

peachyprice wrote: »

OP, you seem to have the same problems as teachers then, i.e you don't understand the new system.

They have not simply renamed the grades from letters to numbers, there is not a direct correlation, some numbers fall between two letter grades and it still hasn't been decided where the boundaries for the grades will be, except possibly for maths because they were going to use the PPE data but as far as I know haven't passed that on to schools. Then there are the grades of 5, which could be a C or a B and 8 which could be an A or an A*, until the results are out this year teachers are in the dark.

Teachers can no longer be confident that expected grades can be achieved therefore this year pupils have been pushed like crazy because schools have no idea what their new grades are going to be, so even A grade students could come out worse off in the subjects that are using the new system. And no doubt, next year when it's rolled out over all subjects it will be even worse.

I don't know how teachers could tell which were A grade students and which were not when the marking was so lenient that everyone got an A grade. It doesn't help students to know where they stand if half the class gets an A grade.

Cakeguts · 18 April 2017 at 5:24PM

marliepanda wrote: »

Because they haven't told people what the actual boundaries are yet.

So it's a case of 'you have got 40%, and erm, yeah, no idea what that actually is'

That's the problem. They haven't just changed the name. They've changed it and given no indication on how that grade is to be achieved now.

It doesn't matter because the ratio between the actual marks won't change. So if someone gets 40% you would expect them to get a lower grade than someone who get 50% and if the universities or anyone else are worried they can ask for those marks. What they are called is just an easy reference.

Cakeguts · 18 April 2017 at 5:30PM

peachyprice wrote: »

OP, you seem to have the same problems as teachers then, i.e you don't understand the new system.

They have not simply renamed the grades from letters to numbers, there is not a direct correlation, some numbers fall between two letter grades and it still hasn't been decided where the boundaries for the grades will be, except possibly for maths because they were going to use the PPE data but as far as I know haven't passed that on to schools. Then there are the grades of 5, which could be a C or a B and 8 which could be an A or an A*, until the results are out this year teachers are in the dark.

Teachers can no longer be confident that expected grades can be achieved therefore this year pupils have been pushed like crazy because schools have no idea what their new grades are going to be, so even A grade students could come out worse off in the subjects that are using the new system. And no doubt, next year when it's rolled out over all subjects it will be even worse.

The grades are a label given to a range of percentages of marks in an exam. The actual marks that the students get in relation to other students taking the same exam will be the same regardless of what label they are given so the grade boundaries don't actually matter.

Cakeguts · 18 April 2017 at 5:39PM

Feebie wrote: »

It also does also matter if 40% is a 4 or a 9. If it is a 9, it will inevitably lead to there being very few marks between each grade which doesn't effectively discriminate between candidates' abilities.

.

If there are very few marks between each grade you would have the same system as you have got now. Where more people get As and A*s than get Bs and Cs. So anything will be better than that?

peachyprice · 18 April 2017 at 7:34PM

Cakeguts wrote: »

The grades are a label given to a range of percentages of marks in an exam. The actual marks that the students get in relation to other students taking the same exam will be the same regardless of what label they are given so the grade boundaries don't actually matter.

Yes, it does matter.

GCSE grades are used for FE entry level requirements. Sixth forms and colleges have already decided what levels are needed for places this year, if a level 6 is harder to achieve than a B because the boundaries are set higher there will be a lot of students who won't be going to their chosen school/college.

Cakeguts · 18 April 2017 at 9:40PM

peachyprice wrote: »

Yes, it does matter.

GCSE grades are used for FE entry level requirements. Sixth forms and colleges have already decided what levels are needed for places this year, if a level 6 is harder to achieve than a B because the boundaries are set higher there will be a lot of students who won't be going to their chosen school/college.

But if every school has the same problem then the 6th form and colleges who don't adjust will not fill their courses because many of the students will not meet the criteria. Perhaps the 6th forms and colleges want to reduce the number of people attending and this is a good chance to do it?

The point is that if the local 6th form sets a level 6 as an entry requirement and the boundaries are set higher so that only a very small number of students get the requirement will the 6th form close down that year and not run any courses? The local college as well? All over the UK?

This is just plain wierd.

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