11% over 3 years from Ablrate P2P

If the loan figure is only ticking up at £20k a week after the initial slew of interest, it doesn't bode particularly well for hitting a 2.5m target (biggest loan so far, you said?). Seems pretty poor testament to their fundraising efforts. Or does the figure on this kind of transaction always tick up hugely in the few days towards the end when it's actually needed?

Otherwise if there is someone in the background who is underwriting £2m worth, is he getting a little agitated now about what work he'll need to do to syndicate the loan out himself if the placing fails?

bowlhead99 wrote: »

If the loan figure is only ticking up at £20k a week after the initial slew of interest, it doesn't bode particularly well for hitting a 2.5m target (biggest loan so far, you said?).

If it was a solid investment opportunity this offer would have attracted at least a couple of high net worth investors by now.

This is an interesting thread, but I am intrigued at how those prepared to enter into such a proposal actually square the risks.

I know a little about aircraft - not a lot - but enough to be dangerous, including experience of flying some real ones unaccompanied across oceans and into remote airfields, and I don't mean in MS Flight Simulator !

I have owned shares in small ones and been privy to some of the paperwork of small to large ones so I understand a little of how interests in loss or damage risks are requested to be covered, and how some finance gets recorded etc., and a little of how there is frequently a complicated pecking order of financial interests to be respected for example by insurers when things go wrong. Don't get me wrong, though, I am no expert in any of it, but I think I am right in saying that before money is advanced on aircraft, there are usually some quite complex agreements demanded by the lender in favour of the lender to be formally signed sealed and delivered by the insurers of the aircraft, before a single button is pressed.

I do know that the very nature of aircraft means they are wholly mobile assets and are pretty useless when they can't be found or moved! They are generally pretty useless to have an interest in if you haven't got the right paperwork to support your next move in a given situation!

To move aircraft physically, they first need to be found, fueled and equipped with power units and they need to be not chained down !

I note that the specifications of the power units on this aircraft are not available. Does that mean they are owned by some other party to the party which owns the hull? They often are.

Aircraft can be, and given the volatility of the aviation business, not infrequently are, effectively chained down or impounded under special court orders whose technical name I forget, by clever disgruntled parties persuing outstanding debts which may or may not be linked to operation of the aircraft itself !

The Crown Prince of Thailand found himself locked out of his aircraft a few of years ago whilst in Germany, by a German road construction firm owed money by the Thai state. He knew where to find his aircraft (back where he last parked it!) but then so did the construction firm, and they successfully kept him out of it!

More often aircraft might be impounded for failure to pay bills for fuel, spares or maintenance.

Then someone has to scrabble around for the cash to get it released. How might that affect a participant in this Phoenix deal I wonder ? Perhaps it doesn't.

Then there's the age thing, I imagine that a 17 year old aircraft that has seen 20,000 + cycles has seen quite a few bills for fuel spares and maintenance. An ATR42 of that vintage is not the prettiest of assets even if it has had yet another paint job. I recall that they are a bit clunky. If I recall correctly they come with a rather agricultural four or five foot aluminium pole prop (not a propeller, a prop like a clothesline prop!) that the cargo handler has to fix under the tail down to the ground before any attempt is made to load cargo in the back, else it might tip up if passengers haven't yet climbed onboard!

Wondrous things these old flying machines! And the finances are no doubt just as wondrous and in need of the correct props to avoid upset!

And that name "Phoenix" must surely at least at one time been a tongue-in-cheek, self-deprecating summary of the provenance of those promoting this type of arrangement ?

But, I am open-minded enough to still stand to be persuaded that what looks like a walk on water deal could be a true niche opportunity