I lent out my railcard and got fined. Who should pay?

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  • stork_2
    stork_2 Posts: 51 Forumite
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    alanchippy wrote: »
    I really can't believe you ask this question. You defraud the transport company, then board without the card then expect someone else to pay your penalty. Which world do you live in?

    Maybe OP lives in the same world in which, last week, someone asked a pretty much identical question, except that the service was parking and that the person being defrauded by the transfer of a non-transferable benefit was the car park operator. And in that case, plenty of people seemed to think that was OK!
  • wrinkleycat
    wrinkleycat Posts: 2 Newbie
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    There are some holier than though people who use this forum.
  • gloriouslyhappy
    gloriouslyhappy Posts: 596 Forumite
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    pixiebel81 wrote: »
    You were both in the wrong, but you were in wrong twice (lending your pass and not checking you had it before travelling) whereas your friend was only once (forgetting to give it back to you) so you should pay. However if I was your friend I'd feel partly responsible and offer to pay part of the fine.

    My sentiments exactly! However, I also think it's worth taking a photo of your pass and emailing customer service to see if they'll refund you the fine less a day return ticket, you can't be the only one to mislay their pass, so they might have a 'one-off' leniency policy. Definitely worth an email!
  • nczm
    nczm Posts: 58 Forumite
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    You are responsible for ensuring you board the train with a valid ticket, the fact you lent it to someone else is irrelevant on this point. You failed to produce a ticket when requested therefore it's your fine to pay.
    I could throw in that some of the train companies will reimburse you if you write to them with your season ticket (they are not obligated to do this, but sometimes they are nice).
    However in your situation I would simply let it go, after all your friend and you could have got into huge trouble for fraudulently sharing the ticket - if you are going to take risks you have to deal with the consequences.
    Although if I was the friend I would probably offer to pay part of the fine had I failed to return the ticket, after all I got a free trip out of it
  • pablakeman
    pablakeman Posts: 291 Forumite
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    You pay the fine of course.

    However, I don't agree with the people who are having a go for transferring the card itself. Rather than being morally wrong (in my view), it actually comes down to risk and reward. If the fine would have been down to the wrong person using the card, the friend would had to pay. However, the fine isn't related to the fact that you lent it to your friend. The fine is because you couldn't present your railcard when asked and you were travelling with a ticket that required it.
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  • nczm
    nczm Posts: 58 Forumite
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    stork wrote: »
    Maybe OP lives in the same world in which, last week, someone asked a pretty much identical question, except that the service was parking and that the person being defrauded by the transfer of a non-transferable benefit was the car park operator. And in that case, plenty of people seemed to think that was OK!
    I think in the previous scenario there wasn't a fine involved which makes it a different situation - e.g. if you gave you car park ticket to someone and they got fined and tried to make you pay, who is in the wrong then?
    Personally I'd try and get a refund from the train operator as they have a valid ticket it was just not available at the time.
  • nczm
    nczm Posts: 58 Forumite
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    pablakeman wrote: »
    You pay the fine of course.

    However, I don't agree with the people who are having a go for transferring the card itself. Rather than being morally wrong (in my view), it actually comes down to risk and reward. If the fine would have been down to the wrong person using the card, the friend would had to pay. However, the fine isn't related to the fact that you lent it to your friend. The fine is because you couldn't present your railcard when asked and you were travelling with a ticket that required it.
    Couldn't agree more, I know of some people who actively jump the fair because paying the fine when they're caught is still significantly cheaper than buying a ticket every day. Risk / Reward (clearly they could also be prosecuted for this but again it's their risk to take)
  • JimmyTheWig
    JimmyTheWig Posts: 12,199 Forumite
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    Friend's fault that they didn't return your ticket, so they should pay the cost of your fare.
    So if you bought a ticket you wouldn't personally be out of pocket.

    Your fault for not checking they returned your ticket before boarding. So you should pay the fine (with your friend paying the cost of the fare towards it).
  • macaroni
    macaroni Posts: 448 Forumite
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    Two separate issues here with one clouding the other.

    You didnt have your card therefore you pay the fine.

    You knew lending your railcard to your friend was wrong but still did it and would have been penalised more (I hope) if caught
    :hello:
  • JimmyTheWig
    JimmyTheWig Posts: 12,199 Forumite
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    stork wrote: »
    Maybe OP lives in the same world in which, last week, someone asked a pretty much identical question, except that the service was parking and that the person being defrauded by the transfer of a non-transferable benefit was the car park operator. And in that case, plenty of people seemed to think that was OK!
    It's completely different. Morally, at least.

    With the car park you are paying for, say, two hours parking. When you do so, the car park company expects you to park there for two hours. If you don't use all of your two hours yourself why shouldn't you let someone else use it? It's like eating half a packet of crisps and giving away the other half. You shouldn't have to throw them away just because you're not going to eat them yourself.

    With the train ticket it's a pass that allows as many journeys as one person will make. You could make journeys constantly all day, but you're not expected to. By sharing a ticket you are using that ticket for more than the journeys that one person will make. It would be like going to an "all you can eat" buffet, paying for one person, eating, swapping places with your friend and them eating. No reason why that should be allowed.
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