IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.

CEL Court Claim, but I was out of the country when the car was parked'

Options
24

Comments

  • s1290
    s1290 Posts: 14 Forumite
    Options
    You guys are just quality,seriously thank you will shortly send over my draft.
  • s1290
    s1290 Posts: 14 Forumite
    Options
    In the County Court Business Centre
    Claim Number *****
    Between:
    Civil Enforcement Limited v ******
    Defence Statement


    I deny I am liable for the entirety of the claim for each of the following reasons:

    The Claim Form issued on the 21 February 2017 by Civil Enforcement Limited was not correctly filed under The Practice Direction as it was not signed by a legal person but signed by "Claimant's Legal Representative"”.

    1).The notice to keeper that CEL issues are not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, sch 4 and therefore there is no keeper liability. Only the driver is liable.

    a). I was not the driver for the event. I could not be as I was out of the country at the time. I will provide proof of this in my evidence and witness statement.

    b). There is therefore no cause of action against me

    2) This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol:
    (a)There was no compliant ‘Letter before County Court Claim’, under the Practice Direction, despite the Defendant's requests for this and further information.
    (b) This is a speculative serial litigant, issuing a large number of identical 'draft particulars'. The badly mail-merged documents contain very little information. The covering letter merely contains a supposed PCN number with no contravention nor photographs.
    (c) The Claim form Particulars were extremely sparse and divulged no cause of action nor sufficient detail. The Defendant has no idea what the claim is about - why the charge arose, what the alleged contract was; nothing that could be considered a fair exchange of information.


    3) The claimant has not issued a compliant notice under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Absent such a notice served within 14 days of the parking event and with fully compliant statutory wording, this Claimant is unable to hold me liable under the strict ‘keeper liability’ provisions.

    4) There can be no 'presumption' by the claimant that the keeper was the driver. Henry Greenslade, lead adjudicator of POPLA in 2015 and an eminent barrister and parking law expert stated that “However keeper information is obtained; there is no ‘reasonable presumption’ in law that the registered keeper of a vehicle is the driver. Operators should never suggest anything of the sort.”

    Schedule 4 also states that the only sum a keeper can be pursued for (if Schedule 4 is fully complied with, which it was not, and if there was a 'relevant obligation' and relevant contract' fairly and adequately communicated, which there was not as there was no clear, transparent information about how to obtain a permit either inside or outside the site) is the sum on the Notice to Keeper. They cannot pluck another sum from thin air and bolt that on as well when neither the signs, nor the NTK, nor the permit information mentioned a possible £250.33 for outstanding debt and damages.

    5) This case can be distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract, formed by unusually prominent signage forming a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Strict compliance with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free. None of this applies in this material case.

    6) Inadequate signs incapable of binding the driver - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    (a) Sporadic and illegible (charge not prominent nor large lettering) of site/entrance signage - breach of the POFA 2012 Schedule 4 and the BPA Code of Practice and no contract formed to pay any clearly stated sum.
    (b) Non existent ANPR 'data use' signage - breach of ICO rules and the BPA Code of Practice.
    (c) It is believed the signage was not lit and any terms were not transparent or legible; this is an unfair contract, not agreed by the driver and contrary to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 in requiring a huge inflated sum as 'compensation' from by an authorised party using the premises as intended.
    (d) No promise was made by the driver that could constitute consideration because there was no offer known nor accepted. No consideration flowed from the Claimant.

    7) BPA CoP breaches - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    (a) the signs were not compliant in terms of the font size, lighting or positioning.
    (b) the sum pursued exceeds £100.
    (c) there is/was no compliant landowner contract.

    8) No standing - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    It is believed Civil Enforcement do not hold a legitimate contract at this car park. As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name which should be in the name of the landowner.

    9) No legitimate interest - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    It is well known that this Claimant files serial claims regarding sites where they have lost the contract, known as 'revenge claims' and the defendant submits that this is one such case. This is not a legitimate reason to pursue a charge out of proportion with any loss or damages the true landowner could pursue.

    10) The Beavis case confirmed the fact that, if it is a matter of trespass (not breach of any contract), a parking firm has no standing as a non-landowner to pursue even nominal damages.

    11) The charge is an unenforceable penalty based upon a lack of commercial justification. The Beavis case confirms that the penalty rule is still engaged in any case of a private parking charge and was only disengaged due to the unique circumstances of that case, which do not resemble this claim.

    12) The claimant has added unrecoverable sums to the original parking charge. If Mr Cohen is an employee then the Defendant suggests he is remunerated and the particulars of claim dated 21st February 2017 are templates, so it is not credible that £50 legal costs were incurred. I deny the Claimant is entitled to any interest whatsoever.

    The Defendant denies any liability whatsoever to the Claimant in any matter and asks the Court to note that the Claimant has:
    (a) failed to disclose any cause of action in the incorrectly filed Claim Form issued on 21st February 2017

    The vague Particulars of Claim disclose no clear cause of action. The court is invited to strike out the claim of its own volition as having no merit and no reasonable prospects of success.

    I believe the facts contained in this Defence Statement are true.

    Signed:
    Date:


    Hi guys also,
    Do i need to change the mr cohen to my name ?
    should i put the full amount including court fees etc or just the £250.33 which is next to outstanding debt and damages.
    Civil Enforcement Limited v ****** - Do i enter my name here ?

    Please let me know if i should remove any paragraphs or unnecessary defence info before i send off serious massive thank you to you guys quality stuff.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,747 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Options
    Do i need to change the mr cohen to my name ?

    Well, no...clearly that's talking about a CEL employee who signs some old trash for them:
    12) The claimant has added unrecoverable sums to the original parking charge. If Mr Cohen is an employee then the Defendant suggests he is remunerated and the particulars of claim dated 21st February 2017 are templates, so it is not credible that £50 legal costs were incurred. I deny the Claimant is entitled to any interest whatsoever.

    And surely you have not got PoC dated February...you can't just copy stuff verbatim!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • s1290
    s1290 Posts: 14 Forumite
    Options
    Of course not Coupon-Mad thanks for the response, I didn't want to enter the exact dates on here in case of them monitoring this , with all dates and names corrected do you think this is a sufficient defence ?
  • s1290
    s1290 Posts: 14 Forumite
    Options
    Hi Umkomaas

    I feel the defence below would be sufficient, based on covering my main concern at the beginning 1) a,b,c - if you experts agree or wish i should amend, I will finalise and send off immediately and hope to get a response.

    I found this based on a similar case and the Claim was stayed.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,747 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Options
    But did you even get sent separate Particulars of claim? I am only concerned because that's not one of the more recent CEL defences (post Easter) and reads like you've copied it verbatim.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • s1290
    s1290 Posts: 14 Forumite
    edited 18 June 2017 at 2:00PM
    Options
    I havent received anything previous to the claim form atall , So i am struggling to find a defence for something that occurred when I wasnt even here , If this is a old one I shall search for a newer more recent defence I am generally steuggling on what i need to defend when ,I have no previous correspondence to work with.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,747 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Options
    Back on page one - not here on your thread page - use 'search this forum' (not the whole of MSE, NOT the box top right - NOPE) and in the little box put in CEL defence (ALWAYS change the search to ''show posts'' not show threads), then just pick out the ones since March/April and any of them will be relevant. They are not much different from the one you showed but the one you found talks about Mr Cohen and stuff that you haven't had. It just isn't right.
    I havent received anything previous to the claim form at all
    The detailed Particulars of Claim (PoC) come after the claim, or they used to, when CEL did it like that. So you can't talk about someone called Mr Cohen signing a document you never got. Hence why you need to find a newer example that doesn't go on about Mr Cohen or separate PoC.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    edited 18 June 2017 at 2:21PM
    Options
    using the above search advice the carz88 thread would seem a good starting point and is a june 2017 thread , as would the puredestiny thread too

    its not hard if you do what CM says above , using the forum drop down search box and those search words , which I just did and it yielded good results in less than 2 minutes of work

    there are many other recent examples over the last 2 months due to the rash of greedy court claims from CEL

    if you read what GAN wrote he says he has written over 120 defences for members on pepipoo and not one proceeded to court
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,747 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Options
    he has written over 120 defences for members on pepipoo

    No he hasn't...
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 608.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173.1K Life & Family
  • 248K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards