Returning closed issue with CPP

Marcyboy88 · 10 August 2016 at 10:11PM

Evening all,

I've received two parking tickets from the CPP. I dealt with one of their tickets using this forum about 2 years back and since getting a new car it looks like they think it's a new person in the flat and they're trying it on.

I know the basics of dealing with these guys, and I've read the main stickies to check for new templates but I'm getting abit confused and have 3 questions. (Below I'll paste my old template that was successful, for review this time around)

Useful facts;
CPP are a 'wait for notice to keeper' company.

Questions;

Can I address two tickets at once?
I haven't received the noticed within the 20+ days that are suggested I wait, the stickies make reference to using this against them.. how?
Will the old template be sufficient for this case? (The template makes reference to the appeal reason if you need it)

[/LIST]

I will make the changes to make it unique to my new ticket(s) before sending.

Dear Car Parking Partnership,

CPN number CP074xxxxx (Originally said PCN, changing to CPN (Civil parking notice) is correct yes?)
As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

My Landlord is the landowner and Popla Harca who is the company you enforce on behalf of have no control over the bay my landlord owns outright.
This has been confirmed in a phonecall with Popla Harca and as further proof I have enclosed two documents proving land ownership. (Review please)

((
1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass (I guess I just delete this))

Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:

- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.

- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.

- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

Take formal note:

(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.

(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.

(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.

By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.

Yours,

Mr x

It's good to be back in the car parking ticket fighting community, and thanks in advance for any and all help.

(A returning thank you to ColliesCarer if they are still active!)

Kind regards,
x

Redx · 10 August 2016 at 10:27PM

1) no , but you can put 2 or more appeals in the same envelope, but each will have its own pcn number

or appeal separately with unique pcn numbers and references etc, even if you had 100 pcn,s

2) an NTK should arrive between day 29 and day 56 for POFA2012 to apply (after an NTD was issued on the windscreen on day 0)

the sticky advice is to send the APPEAL on a certain day , partly hoping that it distracts them from sending an NTK in the 29 to 56 day window , making it harder for them to use POFA2012

3) I would not use old templates at all, but you can add info and attachments to the current templates , as long as you dont give away who was driving

the BPA blue text template is the basis of your appeal or appeals

The_Slithy_Tove · 11 August 2016 at 8:31AM

Don't use Genuine pre-Estimate of Loss. That's a dead duck now (which is why you should use more recent examples to crib from).

Am I to presume this is parking in a residential development? If so, some key questions are:
- Are you renting or do you own the property (or a bit of both if it's a Housing Association development)
- Do you have an allocated parking space or is it free-for-all parking. If an allocated space, does it actually belong to the property
- What exactly does your tenancy/lease say about parking

Depending on the answers, you probably have grounds to get awkward with the management company who employ these goons and get them to lay off for good.

bod1467 · 11 August 2016 at 9:13AM

Useful facts;
CPP are a 'wait for notice to keeper' company.

What does that mean? They don't use windscreen notices, so only send out NTKs? If yes then the timeline of item 2 in post #2 is incorrect ... it is 15 days for the NTK to arrive (day 0 being the date of alleged offence).

The_Deep · 11 August 2016 at 10:23AM

Mr Tove, according to the OP, he/she is a tenant, and the landlord owns the space. He/she seems to have been round the block, and I agree, looks a bit of a trouble maker.

Fruitcake · 11 August 2016 at 11:07AM

You should edit your original post to remove any personal data, if that is you have used your real name. Parking companies read these forums.

Umkomaas · 11 August 2016 at 11:31AM

The_Deep wrote: »

Mr Tove, according to the OP, he/she is a tenant, and the landlord owns the space. He/she seems to have been round the block, and I agree, looks a bit of a trouble maker.

Who 'looks a bit of a trouble maker' TD? Don't understand.

Marcyboy88 · 14 August 2016 at 8:56AM

Hi Guys,

Thank you for the replies.

Here are some answers to your questions.

Redx, the blue text template.. is this it?

Date 123456

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park (Please see supporting documents stating my landlord owns this space and has given me full permission to be there as a tenant of his property) and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,
MY NAME

I've added something stating the proof of my ability to use this bay is included.. is that ok?

Tove, as deep says I am renting the property.
The space is owned by my landlord but is on street. I have the deeds for this highlighting the bay he owns. This was the compelling evidence last time.

Bod1467, I believe last time there were company's you had to write to asap and some where you need to wait for the NTK, I was just referring to this as being the 'wait for NTK' type.

Thanks guys

Umkomaas · 14 August 2016 at 9:45AM

Dear Car Parking Partnership,

Just before embarking on any wild goose chases, there is no AOS member (BPA or IPC) with that name. Do you mean Care Parking Partnership? There are so many outfits with similar names, it's vital that you have total accuracy.

Yes that's the blue text version (unless you can spot any other one there! :cool:)

You send that off (if it is Care Parking) to the timescale shown in the newbies sticky, and as trailed by Redx in his post #2.

the sticky advice is to send the APPEAL on a certain day , partly hoping that it distracts them from sending an NTK in the 29 to 56 day window , making it harder for them to use POFA2012

parkingwoes_2 · 14 August 2016 at 10:17AM

I agree Umkomaas the OP called the PPC by two different names in his previous encounter and left his name all over the place including on the cancellation letter. Probably too late to remove now as has been on the forum for over two years..

However the CCP Car Parking Partnership is this one

http://www.carparkingpartnership.co.uk/

NB (Capita owned) - done research
Appeals can be done online.

Take screenshots and keep a copy of the appeal.

Umkomaas · 14 August 2016 at 10:36AM

Yep, got it it's the old Liberty Printers AR & RF Reddin T/A, T/A ....... Always get them confused.

Nevertheless OP, still a BPA AOS member, so the rest of the advice holds good.

Thanks for the clarification parkingwoes.

Returning closed issue with CPP

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