Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

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  • michaels
    michaels Posts: 28,005 Forumite
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    Cardew wrote: »
    I appreciate you bringing your unique logic to bear on the solution to my requirements for an EV. However I do accept your input was TIC.

    Let me say firstly that I fully accept that EVs are the future and in time, with improved technology and lowered initial costs, they will make financial sense for many motorists.

    However this is a money saving website and at present they make no sense for the vast majority of motorists.

    Let us take the Nissan Leaf 30kW - a smallish family car. The list price for the cheapest version is £25,790. A comparable size petrol/diesel car costs around half that amount - eg. Hyundai I20 is £11,755, Nissan Pulsar is £13,275. Although the official mpg figures are much higher, both those petrol cars will comfortably achieve 45mpg in ‘real world’ motoring.

    The petrol costs for a 10,000 mile a year motorist would be approx. £1,200 and £160 rfl saving. So after 10 years the total outlay(buying car and fuel/rfl costs) would be roughly the cost of the purchase price of the Leaf.

    You then have to consider the electricity costs(£250pa?) for 100,000 miles on the Leaf and the cost of borrowing an extra £12k to £14k(or loss of interest). Also the Leaf price includes a £4,500 subsidy(music to the ears!) for EVs.
    My Nissan Leaf brand new cost 12.4k paid in equal installments over 6 years. Because of the way the govt pays pv subsidies a lot of the fuel I put in it is free. My journeys are all short stop start, when I had a 1.6 petrol I got low 20s mpg, when I had a 1.9 diesel I got low 30s. For us the leaf makes sense financially.
    I think....
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,037 Forumite
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    michaels wrote: »
    My Nissan Leaf brand new cost 12.4k paid in equal installments over 6 years.

    Is that low purchase price with renting renting the battery pack?

    The fact remains that the list price of the cheapest 30kW Leaf is nearly £26,000 and that is after the £4,500 Government grant.
  • michaels
    michaels Posts: 28,005 Forumite
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    Cardew wrote: »
    Is that low purchase price with renting renting the battery pack?

    The fact remains that the list price of the cheapest 30kW Leaf is nearly £26,000 and that is after the £4,500 Government grant.
    Nope, battery is all mine. Sure the list price was much higher...but has anyone ever paid list price for a car?
    I think....
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,037 Forumite
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    michaels wrote: »
    Nope, battery is all mine. Sure the list price was much higher...but has anyone ever paid list price for a car?

    Agreed, almost all cars can be obtained for under list price. Indeed the Hyundai I20 I used as an example above is currently available(on offer) for nearly £2k less than the list price; and that is before you start to barter.

    However if you got(and can still get) a brand new Leaf for half list price, then it becomes a much better proposition.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,764 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    I've stolen this comment, but I'm sure it's correct:
    More 'stolen' comments relating to wind generation last night:-
    And GB broke several records yesterday (2 Oct 2017), by my calculations:
    57.9% - highest ever wind penetration
    11.8GW - highest ever wind generation
    64.9 gCO2e/kWh - lowest ever carbon intensity
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • silverwhistle
    silverwhistle Posts: 3,791 Forumite
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    edited 3 October 2017 at 12:23PM
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    Well, as I type my washing is on the line in full sunshine and a gentle breeze, which will be a lot better offshore/at altitude, and I have a full tank of hot water. The wind/solar combination at the moment must be quite good, I'll have to go and have a look at gridwatch.

    I wanted to comment on the electric vehicle thing, as although I'm sure Zeupater is correct on the achievability of a step change to electric what's important is the fact is so many are thinking about them. The accelerating news from a variety of manufacturers and the increase in the number of models must be having an impact.

    On all the articles I've seen there's always people below the line making plaintivecries of "they won't suit me" as if that's an end to the matter, but I presume those comments will decline.

    My own Hyundai i20 is only 8 years old, so it'll be a few years before I need another car, and who knows what the situation will be then? Maybe I won't be doing my long haul to the Alps for my winter holiday and revisiting old haunts. To be honest I might be finding it difficult to justify a vehicle at all if I'm not playing football in various parts of the county and ferrying ageing parent around locally.

    The changing situation is quite interesting though.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,764 Forumite
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    And for a change from wind and PV, here's some tidal stream news from Japan, that may bear relevance for other island nations.

    Wave Power Renewable Energy Project Underway In Japan
    Professor Tsumoru Shintake of the Okinawa Institute of Science and Technology University thinks wind and solar power are wonderful things. But research in those areas is a crowded field. He wants to investigate other forms of renewable energy, like turbines driven by ocean currents and waves.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,764 Forumite
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    Time to shine: Solar power is fastest-growing source of new energy
    Renewables accounted for two-thirds of new power added to world’s grids last year, says International Energy Agency
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,764 Forumite
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    Bouncing around articles I fell on this one about replacement battery costs for older Nissan Leafs (24kWh models). The price is $5.5k plus 3 hrs labour.

    Nissan Sets Replacement Cost Of 24 kWh LEAF Battery At $5,499

    That sounds very reasonable, not sure what the UK price is, but even if it was £5.5k that would equal less than 2yrs consumption of petrol for average driving (7,900miles pa, 22 miles per day).

    Add in some finance, leccy bills etc, and perhaps 2 to 3yrs and its completely paid for.
    The warranty on the new battery is the same as it is in a brand new LEAF — 8 years/100,000 miles against defects and 5 years/60,000 miles against capacity loss. “These replacement batteries are the same battery found in 2015 LEAF vehicles, which are also on sale now at Nissan dealers. As a replacement, this battery is expected to provide similar range and charging characteristics as the battery offered since the launch of the LEAF in 2010,” Nissan says.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • NigeWick
    NigeWick Posts: 2,715 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    The price is $5.5k plus 3 hrs labour.
    How much do they pay you for your old battery that they'll use in their home storage units?
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
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