Royal Mail: When does a letter become a small packet when posting outside uk?

batfink22 · 30 April 2012 at 12:21PM

I've just rung Royal Mail customer services and actually got through to a human being (this has never happened before!). According to the man I spoke to contract customers have specific definitions (re. size/thickness) as to what constitutes a letter, large letter and packet when posting in UK and abroad. However, for a regular customer who goes to the Post Office there should be no problem in sending a packet (ie something that contains goods) using the letter rate rather than small packet rate EVEN THOUGH the official definition is that a letter should contain a letter and a packet should contain goods.

I explained I didn't want to use the wrong rate and not have the goods delivered. He said that for international items if the wrong rate was used then the letter/packet would be returned to the sender rather than be delivered to the addressee with extra charges, but in reality this would not happen and that he would send items according to weight rather than the letter/small packet definition.

Yes, I took a note of his name, and date/time of call

Essentially good news for small businesses sending light packets abroad but talk about confusing!

ewc · 30 April 2012 at 1:12PM

You mention

Yes, I took a note of his name, and date/time of call

Perhaps it would be a good idea to post it here - since this advice contradicts what I just got on the Royal Mail helpline

I just spoke to Royal Mail and the young lady was completely confused about the matter, but eventually came up with the 5mm definition from the business webpage - also quoted earlier

Problems with that definition are twofold

Firstly - according to those pages it is impossible to send anything between bigger than 5mm/100g but also smaller than 20mm/500g at all!

Secondly - other pages contradict this and say letters are OK up to 2 KG

I am inclined to believe your informant - buit this really needs to be cleared up formally. Even prior to the current changes, I have had numerous disputes with counter staff on this matter.

Not their fault of course. RM seems to be in total confusion

EWC

ravenjet · 3 May 2012 at 11:34AM

Confirmation from my post office this morning ( who have spoken to their personal advisor for the area) is that within the Post Office Horizon system there is a page which shows classification of letter size (5mm rule) and because it does not state either Inland or Overseas it is to be taken as both so if an envelope does not fit within the 5mm rule then its small packet / printed paper.

soolin · 3 May 2012 at 7:16PM

ravenjet wrote: »

Confirmation from my post office this morning ( who have spoken to their personal advisor for the area) is that within the Post Office Horizon system there is a page which shows classification of letter size (5mm rule) and because it does not state either Inland or Overseas it is to be taken as both so if an envelope does not fit within the 5mm rule then its small packet / printed paper.

My local Crown post office plus the two local ones and the mail centre I now use would disagree.

The sizing between letter and packet rate is for UK only. Look at RM online no sizes are shown, only weight for airmail:

http://www.royalmail.com/delivery/delivery-options-international/airmail/prices

http://www.royalmail.com/delivery/delivery-options-international/airmail/details

Mor eimportantly the sizes are clearly shown here:

http://www.royalmail.com/delivery/delivery-options-international/airmail/faqs/faqs#1400039

for BOTH letter and packet

Minimum sizeMaximum sizeLetter or PacketOne surface must be at least 90mm x 140mmLength, width and depth combined must not be greater than - 900mm
The greatest single dimension must not exceed - 600mm

ravenjet · 4 May 2012 at 10:27AM

soolin wrote: »

My local Crown post office plus the two local ones and the mail centre I now use would disagree.

My local PO has always sent items by letter if cheaper than small packet / printed papers but have now been told they have been doing it wrong. It's the post office Horizon system thats showing them this info and not royal mail.

So other than being selective as to which PO I post at I'm still no further forward.

soolin · 4 May 2012 at 10:26PM

I have just printed out postage on a small item to Australia, it makes no mention of size when you choose the postage and offered me both letter and packet rate.

Just before you click to pay (having chosen letter rate) it says

'Maximum dimensions for international items: For international letters or packets, the length plus the depth plus the width must not exceed 900mm, also the longest side of the letter / packet must not exceed 600mm. For international items in the form of a roll, the roll must not exceed 900mm in length, also the length plus 2 times the diameter of the roll must not exceed 1040mm '

redmower3 · 10 May 2012 at 11:32AM

Further to my original enquiry here, I grasped the nettle and phoned Royal Mail customer services.

I spoke to Dave.

He said a letter is correspondance and anything else is a packet.

Me: 'so if I send a 20g letter to Oz it will cost £1.28'
Dave: 'yes'
Me: 'if I then slip a paper thin washer into that envelope it's now a packet and will now cost £3.30'
Dave: 'yes'
Me: 'what if I don't tell you about the washer?'
Dave: 'then we wouldn't know'
Me: 'so, as long as content was disguised then you wouldn't know and I could get the cheaper rate?'
Dave: 'yes'
Me: 'would i need a customs declaration?'
Dave: 'then it would be a packet'
Me: 'what happens during the delivery process if you decided my letter was a packet?'
Dave: 'it would cost us more to return it to you and ask for the correct money than just deliver it, so you would nearly always get away with it.'

So, according to Dave, correspondance, which can weigh up to 2kg is a letter, but stuff a washer weighing less than a gram in an envelope and it's a packet.

My solution wrt eBay is to list auctions with the £3.30 packet price and offer a refund if I manage to get away with a letter.

Thanks for your input on this thread.

Cheers

Mick

ravenjet · 11 May 2012 at 6:31PM

redmower3 wrote: »

So, according to Dave, correspondance, which can weigh up to 2kg is a letter, but stuff a washer weighing less than a gram in an envelope and it's a packet.

So why do my PO refuse to send anything overseas that is larger than UK LETTER SIZE as a letter, no way can you fit 2kg of letter through the letter slot.

Today they refused to take an A4 envelope with printed paper in because I wanted it to go as letter. It weighed 60g but because it was A4 and not within the "UK LETTER" rule they said it had to go printed paper which only starts at 101g.

P3dro · 12 May 2012 at 8:04PM

Complain to Royal Mail and you should get a refund for the difference/book of stamps (plus I bet the PO will know the rules next time.)

ravenjet · 13 May 2012 at 9:28AM

P3dro wrote: »

Complain to Royal Mail and you should get a refund for the difference/book of stamps (plus I bet the PO will know the rules next time.)

I phoned Royal Mail, they didn't know why the PO did that, they told me to use a different PO next time and gave me the Post Office number to call to complain to.

Royal Mail: When does a letter become a small packet when posting outside uk?

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