Tyre rotation

What does it say in the handbook for the car regarding tyre rotation? One of ours recommends every 5000 miles you should swap NSR for OSF and NSF for OSR, the other car recommends fronts and rears be swapped on the same side every 5000.


I agree with a lot of comments so far, always replace in pairs, new tyres go on the rear, but if you rotate as per manufacturers recommendation then that shouldn't be an issue unless you damage one or puncture a sidewall. And I replace at 2mm or 5 years whichever comes first.


I'm not surprised Kwik Fit recommended all 4 tyres, they are widely known for their scare tactics and recommending unnecessary work. I remember once being told "my brakes were over 45% worn". I nearly rolled out the place laughing, I was only in for an emergency puncture repair, I wouldn't use them for anything else!

Seems there is quite a lot of divergent opinion on this subject, so I thought I'd have a go at something everyone could agree with. So here goes:

When maintaining tyres the following should be followed in descending order of priority:

1. Legal requirements
2. The vehicle manfactuers recommendations
3. The tyre manufactuers recommendations
4. Guidance from local tyre centre or garage
5. Thoughts from randon folks down the pub, or hanging round in forums.

ohreally wrote: »

Where does Michelin state this, they only refer to the UK wear limit, I certainly don't see them advocate use to that level.

Err, item 2 of "When should I change my tyres" in the link I gave.

Also, here:

http://www.transportengineer.org.uk/transport-engineer-news/michelin-hits-back-at-3mm-car-tyre-change-campaign-updated/155431

Michelin is rejecting calls from parts of the automotive tyre industry to increase the minimum legal tread depth of car tyres in the UK from 1.6mm to 3mm.

[...]

“With this in mind, changing tyres early (i.e. before they are fully worn) does not guarantee greater safety, and no current studies have established a direct link between accident levels and tyre tread depth.

And here (interview with their research director, Bernard Delmas):

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/miscellaneous/2016-10/qa-replacing-tyres-at-3mm-tread-an-absolute-waste-says-michelin-director/

{HJ}: The message that Michelin is putting out at the moment is that a 3mm tread depth as a legal requirement is nonsense – is that correct?

{BD}Exactly. Actually we encourage [this]. We say we should use the tyre to 1.6mm which is the legal tread indicator and that’s true for wet performance, wet conditions, snow conditions.

and here:

https://www.automotiveworld.com/news-releases/michelin-changing-tyres-3mm-unnecessary-costly-harmful-environment/

When consumers reflect on road safety, they generally think about emergency braking in wet conditions – and with reason as braking distances increase in wet conditions. However, throughout Europe the road conditions are predominantly dry. In London, roads are dry for 71 per cent of days per year (106.5 days)* and with half the number of rainy days, the South of France has dry roads 85% of the time! Therefore, dry braking performance is important as these are the most prevalent conditions for all the vehicles throughout Europe.

The good news for motorists is that as long as tyres are not damaged in any way, the safety on dry roads actually improves as their tyres get worn. As seen on race circuits around the world, in dry conditions the ‘slick’ is the tyre of choice; and similarly for the ordinary motorist, levels of grip in dry conditions increase as the tyre tread depth reduces. A worn tyre will stop a vehicle more quickly in the dry than the same tyre when new.

As they point out, while people get all shouty about wet grip, UK roads are dry for nearly 75% of the year and DRY grip is better on worn tyres than new.

So, if you really want that extra braking in an emergency, the chances are it'll be on a dry road not wet & you'll want your tyres worn to maximise it

ohreally wrote: »

You stated it was Michelins guidance to "use tyres all the way to the 1.6mm limit", the link you used does not state that at all.

Michelin have made noises about increasing the lower were limit from 1.6mm to 3.0mm, nothing more, again your link in #21 does not have Michelin advising motorists to wear tyres down to the limit.

Lifes too short.

No, you'e got that completely the wrong way round.

Other people hae made noises about increasing the limit to 3mm and Michelin hae gone out on a limb and said it's not necessary and that tyres should be used to 1.6mm

In the links I gave, that includes their director of research and development (who, incidentally, has nearly 40 years direct experience in the industry):

"We say we should use the tyre to 1.6mm ". I even quoted that art of the link for you.

Here's another quote, this time from a member of their executive committee - in fact, their Vice President of Passenger Car and Light Truck Product Line at the time :

Thierry Chiche, a senior member of Michelin's executive committee, told Goodwood Road and Racing in Paris last week: "It's a nonsense. There's no scientific evidence that there's more danger below a tread depth of 3mm.

https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/road/news/2016/10/michelin-tread-depth/

If he's not speaking "for the company" on this I ca't imagine who you would accept!

The fact you don't like it, or don't agree, doesn't alter the fact that that's the advice Michelin give - at all levels - since at least 2010 (in the original link I gave). That's despite the fact that they stand to lose sales by giving this advice.

And I'm afraid I'm inclined to believe them more than random internet experts, assorted tyre chains who have a clearly vested interest in selling more tyres, or safety organisations who have a vested interest in inventing the next campaign.