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Glen_Clark wrote: »For a pension fund with liabilities in a currency, the only way to guarantee them may be to store that currency.
This one was in the Money section on 7th August 2016
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/savers-hit-as-firms-milk-and-dump-pensions-xfcdssbrv
http://www.pensionsage.com/pa/Businesses-milking-and-dumping-to-shed-pension-deficits.php%20.php
Basically, now that there is the Pension Protection Fund, the business blackmails the PPF into accepting the endangered pension fund, OR the business goes bankrupt, so thousands lose their jobs.
Deliberate deprivation of assets, to qualify for care home costs, but at a corporate level. Another scandal coming up.
Storing cash to meet liabilities? It's cheaper to hire assassins to "retire" the pensioners for £5,000 a head, with private equity ethics running things.0 -
Do you say that from experience?
If this was Russia you'd be uncomfortably close to the mark!0 -
All these people getting older, what do you expect?
A novel approach is 100% inheritance tax if you die after age 75.
Guess who is going to snuff you after your 74th birthday?
Son number one, what are you doing with that pillow? :eek:0 -
OR the business goes bankrupt, so thousands lose their jobs.
And the shareholders - the actual owners of the business - get zero, so it's a dangerous bluff.I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
gadgetmind wrote: »And the shareholders - the actual owners of the business - get zero, so it's a dangerous bluff.
Would the directors care as long as they walk away with 1 mil a year pensions?0 -
gadgetmind wrote: »And the shareholders - the actual owners of the business - get zero, so it's a dangerous bluff.
The key is "milk" first, i.e. a private equity fund buys a BHS type borderline case, then borrow heavily using whatever asset is left as collateral, suck it out through loans or whatever. The "shareholders" know precisely where they stashed the loot.
The pension fund would of course be deliberately starved of funding.
As soon as the pension liability is offloaded onto the PPF, the business is suddenly viable again, so it can be exploited further.
It's 1980s corporate raiders all over again, except they have the PPF to sucker into taking over a dud now.
If the pensioners vote to accept the PPF rescue, they are accepting a major hair cut in benefits. If I was one of them, with only a few years left to live anyway, suicide bomb must be close to my mind.0 -
Would the directors care as long as they walk away with 1 mil a year pensions?
The PPF has a cap so those on higher salaries stand to lose a whole load more than others.I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
As soon as the pension liability is offloaded onto the PPF, the business is suddenly viable again, so it can be exploited further.
PPF does present a bit of a "moral hazard" but the vast majority of shareholders and directors want to run a well-respected company that's viable over the *very* long term.
However the "everyone's a millionaire!" design of DB pensions with their ever-changing deficit/surplus as the underlying assumptions change make this difficult.
We're now seeing a lot of "leaner and meaner" young competitors coming along that aren't burdened with unaffordable pensions and deeply-entrenched militant unions, and they are running rings around the old school. Sadly this then pushes these pension obligations onto the tax payer.I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
gadgetmind wrote: »The PPF has a cap so those on higher salaries stand to lose a whole load more than others.
That's assuming the directors relied on the company scheme and had not squirreled away the money elsewhere like the Rover 4 or Green.0 -
How do you know it was £15k?
Might have been many years' accumulated cash ISA balances:cool:
It was!!!!! Plus the 24 include 16 existing Share ISA investment trusts, I just bought an additional 8 with my £85k matured cash ISA.
If anyone is interested, I hold:-
No.. Automated Share Price....................Epic...... Shares
1....Aberdeen Asian Income Fund.............. AAIF...... 6825
2....Bankers Investment Trust................ BNKR...... 2140
3....BlackRock Income Strategies..............BIST...... 9750
4....City Of London Investment Trust..........CTY....... 3405
5....Dunedin Income Growth Inv Trust..........DIG....... 4875
6....Edinburgh Investment Trust.............. EDIN...... 2050
7....European Assets Trust....................EAT........1100
8....F & C Capital and Income Inv Trust...... FCI........5000
9....Henderson Far East Income Ltd............HFEL...... 3875
10.. INVESCO Income Growth Trust..............IVI....... 4625
11.. JPMorgan European Inv Trust..............JETI...... 10825
12.. JPMorgan Global Emerging Mrkts Inc Trust JEMI...... 10300
13.. JPMorgan Claverhouse Inv Trust.......... JCH....... 2275
14.. Law Debenture Corporation Ordinary 5p....LWDB...... 2675
15.. Lowland Investment Company plc.......... LWI....... 1000
16.. Mercantile Investment Trust PLC..........MRC....... 900
17.. Merchants Trust plc Ordinary 25p........ MRCH...... 2725
18.. Murray Income Trust plc..................MUT....... 1665
19.. Murray International Trust.............. MYI....... 1150
20.. Perpetual Income & Growth Inv Trust......PLI....... 3450
21.. Schroder Income Growth Fund..............SCF....... 5150
22.. Schroder Oriental Income Fund............SOI....... 6575
23.. Scottish American Investment Co plc......SCAM...... 5200
24.. Temple Bar Investment Trust plc..........TMPL...... 9050
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