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[MSE Martin]

Hi,

I'm in the midst of writing a completely new 'How to get an Upgrade article' as the current one is now quite old and out of date (and the new one will be a lot more detailed).

This will cover both

Free upgrades (which are rare)
And paid for upgrades (how to get them cheapest)

What I'd like to ask airline staff

However I wanted to ask those who work for airlines, especially check-in staff and cabin crew especially about free upgrades as the information on paid for ones is easy to aquire and we've already found many good ways.

Just to say, I'm aware that this is something that isn't too common, what I'm talking about is how to increase people's chance.

If possible please let us know the airline, but if that's a problem there's no need...

Information that'd be great

• In your airline who has authority to grant free upgrades
• How common are upgrades
• What do you think is the best approach
• In what circumstances are upgrades given
• Are upgrades even given to passengers who aren't members of frequent flyer clubs?
• Is it better to ask for an upgrade or is that just annoying
• Anything else you want to tell us...

Plus any stories of people getting it very wrong or very right would be wonderful...

Thanks

Martin

[MSE Martin]

to Help Keep This Thread On Topic - Rather Than General Discussion Of Upgrade Chances As These Have A Tendancy To (please use the many other threads for that)- We're Going To Delete Off Topic Threads.

[carl]

I was watching I think it was the bbc airport programme a while ago the airline had over booked in economy so they had to upgrade some passangers the ones they upgraded was the ones that were smartly dressed that look like they would fit into first class.
So it might be an idea to dress smartly when traveling to be more in with a chance.

[donny osmonds mad fan]

so why the heck was mine deleted??????? I spend a lot of time and effort typing out everything you asked from a former check in girls point of view...nothing was abusive or off topic it was exactly what you wanted martin.................so you know what fine sod it shan't both again!

Insert by Martin

You had actually posted on another thread (I checked your prior posts) ... it hadn't been deleted... and is still there... however I've copied it from here below to make you a bit happier
____________________________________________


I agree there is no science for it however having worked on check in for united airlines who also dealt with many others such as jet airways, bwia, air china and air new zealand, the best tip is dont be an over jokey idiot who jokes and begs for an upgrade with the check in staff as nine times out of ten we are the ones who put your name forward.

With most airlines if it is not oversold in the back you will have to pay for your upgrade with points or cash. In this day and age airlines can not afford to be giving things away.

If the back is oversold they will be looking for people to upgrade but it is nearly always done to frequent flyers obviously the higher ranking ones first and work the way down, failing that on airlines who dont always have lots of members (for instance in the days of BWIA) we would be asked to comment SFU (suitable for upgrade) and at the gate they may get one, we would be asked to look for smartly dressed nice polite people. If we were oversold and looking and we had a half decent nice couple who were honeymooners or if someone mentioned it was their birthday or I noticed in the passport they were off for a special birthday etc then I would point that out to the supervisor too and comment it....apart from that unless you were an exceptionally handsome business man..not a lot of hope lol....I would also comment if we had other airlines staff travelling as they would also be quite suitably dressed on the whole.

On united if we were oversold, then they may well have special offers on for next cabin upgrade so maybe economy to business for £300, or business to first for £300 etc and they would always ask us to try to sell them to make the airline some money and failing that would upgrade at the gate if that hadn't worked.

As for getting bumped off a flight and making some cash or upgrade that way on the whole you may not be bumped even if you volunteer for it if you have a connection, you dont as routine on the whole get awarded an upgrade as well as a payment (some airlines may differ but none of those ones listed did it as standard and AA didnt when we offered as a family of 5 to be bumped...they wouldn't even promise some seats together so as we had children we decided not to take that risk), get to check in early if you think this maybe te case as if they get a few offers of bumps they would then tell us not to ask any more.

hope that helps

[WiseInvestor]

Under current UK/EU Tax laws each passenger pays tax based on his/her class of travel, so a First Class passenger will pay considerably more than someone sat in Economy. Therefore 'free' upgrades can pose serious tax implications for the airlines. For this reason, only VERY FEW staff (ie the Duty Manager) has authority to upgrade people and must be able to justify that decision to a tax auditor. HM Revenue & Customs would consider cabin oversales as a valid reason, but not because somebody asked nicely. Asking for a free upgrade is effectively asking the airline employee to break the law. Please don't do it.

Most of the larger airlines have a set rate for payed upgrades which can be much cheaper than booking the higher class from the outset. The risk is that there may be no seats available on the day in your chosen cabin and you may not be offered the improved meal as many airlines cater based on the number of known bookings. Moving, for example from Virgin's Economy to Premium Economy or BA's World Traveller to World Traveller Plus shouldn't pose too much of a problem because cabin crew can usually accommodate paid extras. It's not quite so easy moving from Economy to Business Class since the onboard product is usually very different so stocks may be limited.

Gone are days when Frequent Flyers were routinely upgraded because the airlines realised that passengers were deliberately under-booking (so paying less) knowing they'd sit in a better seat anyway. If the airline has to upgrade due to oversales the decision is often/usually made behind-the-scenes in advance of check-in where staff have little more than booking profiles on which to select suitable candidates. They'll usually select those who've already paid the highest fares so a passenger with a Fully Flexible ticket is far more likely to be selected than one who's opted for the lowest "restricted" fare online. That said, check-in staff may be asked to be 'on the lookout' so I wouldn't turn up in shorts and flip-flops if you want to stand any chance of sitting further forward.

As for predicting which flights will be oversold is almost impossible. Even the airlines' highly sophisticated sales software can't do that. I would, however predict that upgrading could/will become more common as businesses scale back their travel budgets forcing the airlines to fill their planes with leisure travellers, as it's better to make some money from a seat than none at all.

Looking at upgrades from the other perspective, airlines are VERY keen not to upset their regular premium passengers who've paid significant amounts of money to sit in a higher cabin. That expectation not only suggests a nicer/larger/flatter seat but also quieter, more spacious surroundings and a more individual service from the cabin crew. Premium passengers DO NOT take kindly to overhearing excited couples discussing how lucky they've been to be reclined with a glass of Champagne having paid only £200 each! If you are lucky enough to be upgraded, suppress your excitement and retain your dignity by behaving as though you're already "one of them". Cabin crew do pick up on such conversations and the level of service offered to you may be scaled down somewhat!

I often see "Suitable For Upgrade - Honeymoon couple" next to passengers' bookings, usually on flights to exotic beach destinations. Let me assure you that you're not the only ones; half the plane are celebrating something (wedding, anniversary, 40/50/60th birthday...) so don't expect any special treatment. In fact, many frequent flyers take their families to such places on holiday using their Airmiles which carry significant weight when deciding who gets to sit where.

The worst/funniest(?) situation I've encountered was a 'foreign" gentlemen who refused to sit beside a woman, who he (and supposedly his religion) deemed unclean! The Captain invited him to take his seat or get off, whereupon he promptly sat down. Realising that he was simply trying it on just to get upgraded and given the obvious offense he had already caused his neighbour, the Chief Steward promptly removed her bags from the overhead locker and invited her to move forward instead.


In summary, the airline industry is suffering desperate times, both from unfair competition with US airlines being protected from debtors (Chapter 11 Bankruptcy laws) and overseas ownership/traffic rights (Open Skies), and record oil prices pushing $140 per tonne. Many airlines have announced network reductions, staff lay-offs and some even bankruptcy. Over 10 airlines have gone out of business this year already, half in the UK! The airlines are looking to rationalise their businesses to earn as much money from as few people as possible. Upgrade is becoming a dirty word for the staff trying to hold onto their jobs, so please think twice before asking them to give you something for nothing and break the law in the process!

[smala01]

After logging a number of frequent flyer points (bmi star alliance) i decided it was a good time to redeem them for a "free flight".

Well after taxes, fuel surcarges, security supliments my free flight with points suddenly because MORE expensive than simply paying for a flight in cash based on a best buy table. (£219 to New York on points, Vs £203 paying in money)

So IMHO the "cheapest" way to upgrade and get best value from your points is to use your frequent flyer miles to upgrade from economy to business/first.

Smala01

[therealdessie]

I often fly to the US with United Airlines because their points seem to offer the best deals. Not only does the Mileage Plus Visa rack up a fair number (if you remember to pay off/transfer balance), but you can "double dip" at many hotels and earn free nights in the process. A one-way fare class upgrade with United costs me 30 thousand points for a flight to the west coast of the USA - 1 mile is given for every mile flown so it was easy to get these after just a few trans-Atlantic flights and some promotional offers, surveys and the like. Best of all you continue to earn miles when flying the upgraded flight. It's also important to note that you can buy miles either direct from UA or from eBay (...!). As for being given an upgrade - I've never seen it happen to anyone below their Premier/1K club (which requires a lot of flights).

Another key point is that you can usually bump yourself if you're quick enough. When selecting your flights if you can book far enough ahead in advance and have the option of choosing your seats I would always recommend being seated as far forward as you can in Economy class. Very often early on the plane allocated to the flight is smaller than the one the airline intend to use, so by the time your flight comes around you'll find a larger plane is being used. Inevitably this means that your seat which was in economy is now in "extra economy" and you can enjoy a slightly larger amount of legroom - check sites like seatguru.com to find those seats. Of course, sometimes the airline realise and move you, but if you can get away with it... That said United offer a chance to make that upgrade as many times as you like through a year for yourself and one other person for £100 (from memory, and subject to availability) anyway.

[superfurryanimal]

I think I've been pretty lucky as I've been upgraded twice in my time and am not a frequent flyer, usually just once a year.

The first time was a classic 'bumping off' scenario where the airline had overbooked the flight during the Easter hols. It offered us £250 each, put as up for the night and we travelled first the next day.

The other time I was on a group fundraising trip to Africa. I'd gone a bit earlier than the others and got chatting to the desk staff. The plane was pretty empty and I guess because it was a charity thing they were very nice and upgraded us! It was a fairly small airline though, and th whole plane wasn't that busy.

[jayeatman]

Back in the good old days when I flew full fare and had a BA Gold card, upgrades were easy to come by: You asked and often got!
I don't think many airline staff would be offended by a polite request for an upgrade, but don't hold your breath. If you are a frequent flyer, and look smart, you will certianly have a much better chance.
My most recent upgrade was when I got a bulkhead seat at the front of the economy cabin. In BA cabins at least this is where they put mothers with babies because there are fixings for the cot on the bulkhead. They needed my seat for one such mother so I was asked to move forward.
For this reason, if you check in on line, the bulkhead seats are never available. The same goes for emergency exit seats as certain passengers (children, old, fat ones to be blunt) mustn't be put there, so either don't check in on line or when you get to the airport ask to change your seat to a bulkhead or emergency exit seat.
If you don't get an upgrade, at least you'll have more legroom. Downside is you might get stuck next to a screaming baby.

[stuart07970]

Originally Posted by donny osmonds mad fan

so why the heck was mine deleted??????? I spend a lot of time and effort typing out everything you asked from a former check in girls point of view...nothing was abusive or off topic it was exactly what you wanted martin.................so you know what fine sod it shan't both again!

I can only sympathise. Having sat behind a check-in desk for 12hours a day in my youth, it becomes a very lengthy task when every single customer asks for a bulkhead seat or upgrade.
Economy seat = £400
Business Class = £4000

You wouldn't try it in Tesco would you?
"i know I've paid for Liebfraumilch but can I have Dom Perignon?"

I await this post being deleted to keep this thread 'on topic'

[stuart07970]

Airlines ONLY upgrade if the class in which travelling is OVERBOOKED
and the class above has space.

It is common practice to overbook all cabins when possible.

Another reason to arrive early.

Sometimes frequent travelers were pre-bumped, but generally we'd just look for 'suitables' on the day.

A guy I used to work with would always target old people, simply because they were generally more polite, and always more grateful. Bless 'em!

[helmar29]

I work for an airline and upgrading does still happen. It does help if you are a member of a loyalty scheme and any upgrading is usually done by the ground staff and dispatcher. As cabin crew we don't really have any authority although passengers tend to think up some wonderful stories as to why they should be the chosen ones..Also we are not stupid and I am always amazed at how some people will upgrade themselves sitting in a seat in a clearly different cabin to the one they have purchased. We do find you then you are given the choice to either pay the difference or to move!

The last flight I did had about 30 people upgraded into what is premium economy. So it may help to arrive late at check in when they are adjusting the final figures, plus if you are reasonably well dressed this will work in your favour. Finally there is no harm in asking the ground staff, just be polite and courteous. Being bolshie and thinking it is a right will not work.

Good luck and just to let you know that as airline staff we are not automatically upgraded. Have spent many flights sat wedged in the middle seat between two snoring men when I am dying to go to the loo!

[stuart07970]

Best story I ever saw to get upgraded was a honeymoon couple who said that the husband was suffering from SHINGLES, apparently this is contagious,
they were removed from the aircraft and refused travel until we received a medical certificate stating that he was 'fit for travel' THREE days later.

His new missus did not look happy at having missed the first 3 days of their honeymoon.

In short - don't jerk around with airline staff - they hold all the cards!!!

[stuart07970]

please do not follow helmar29's advice to show up late, you are more likely to get bumped due to overbooking!

What the Virgin Atlantic cabin crew never see is the trauma of refusing travel at checkin due to overbooking!
God bless the groundstaff!

[cestor]

The way they work, is that if they have capacity they allocate upgrades using the following criteria and order to determine priority:

1. Class of the Economy ticket - only the top 4 classes (I think they are P S and Y) qualify for this

2. Frequent Flyer Level - Platinum, Gold, Regular

3. Number of Frequent Flyer Points

So basically if you pay for a very expensive economy ticket you are much more likely to get an upgrade than if you are a Platinum member on a lower grade of ticket.

[A.Jones]

I always travel economy and never been upgraded. But then, I don't care. I prefer to travel in jeans and a t-shirt, and be comfortable at the airport. Flying economy doesn't both me.

If I was paying extra to travel first / business class and I knew that people around me were economy passengers, I would soon stop paying the extra.

I always find it funny that on some flights (especially smaller ones) the business passengers, that have often paid 5 or 6 times more than you (or even more), get to sit a couple of rows in front of you, only get a slightly better meal (it's still airline food, save your money for a decent meal at the destination) and maybe a glass of champagne. I guess business travellers pay the extra because it is not actually them paying.


I travelled first class on the NXEC train line in January (my first time, and for free, since I tried out the old GNER new ticket booking website and got a voucher). I didn't really find it much different to standard class. OK, you get a bigger seat. I regularly make 4 hour journeys, and the standard seats are fine for me. You get "free" tea or coffee. I've got a flask. But the train I travelled was full of business men making mobile phone calls. Endlessly. After half an hour, I moved to the quiet coach in good old economy. And you know what, coach B was at the front of the train, first class at the rear. So I even arrived before them.

[RagingAardvark]

FWIW, I got an upgrade last week.

Flying Air Transat (of all people) back from Vancouver to Gatwick, I had paid the mighty sum of £7.50 to pre-book an emergency exit seat.

When I boarded the plane - second from last - I went to 10D to discover that, not only was it in the middle of the plane, but someone was sitting there already.

I pointed out to the nice chap at the door that I wasn't going to sit there and turf someone out - as I'd paid for the legroom - and was able to show him my booking receipt confirming the £7.50 "pre-assigned seat" entry.

He kindly bunged me up into business - despite wearing a moose-skin hat and flip-flops.

Thankyou nice Mr Steward!

[helenbee]

Stuart07970, airlines certainly do upgrade people without the lower grade being overbooked. I flew by BA in business class on a longhaul flight last year and when everyone was seated (therefore no overbooking) the stewards went back to economy and chose three people to upgrade to fill empty seats in business class. They chose elderly, smartly dressed people. I watched them do it and all they did was go and invite these people to move forward. The people concerned hadn't even asked for an upgrade. Business still wasn't full so obviously they weren't just trying to fill it up.

[claireak1]

I'm not by any means a frequent flyer, but have been upgraded twice. The first time was because of a serious mistake made by ground staff who, following a cancelled flight, then sent us to another destination to make a connecting flight, but never booked us on the connecting flight, leaving us stranded! I wouldn't recommend this as a way of getting upgraded. The other passengers must have hated us, as at the time we were two students, and we made the most of it!

The second was on a special holiday with my Mum and 2 sisters to New York. We dressed smartly, asked the check-in man politely, he said no, we accepted it, and then at the end when he handed us our tickets he said he had managed to upgrade us, at which point my mum burst into tears. I'm afraid I've no idea what worked, but it was a wonderful trip!

My sister-in-law works as long haul cabin crew for BA, and she says that there are no tricks. She has in the past tried writing a letter to the chief purser of the flight she knows friends/families will be travelling on, but this doesn't work either.

[IvanOpinion]

I appreciate that this is maybe not what Martin is interested in but thought I would mention it anyway (he can always delete the post).

It may not be free but sometimes the best use of frequent flyer points is to use them for an upgrade (the cost of upgrade being more than the cost of an economy ticket). I think it costs about 20-25,000 BA points to upgrade on a flight to America.

Ivan