Unfair Parking Tickets: Have you appealed or spotted a loophole?

MSE_Martin · 10 June 2008 at 5:24PM

What's it about?

Very few subjects provoke the same high emotion and fighting spirit as unfair parking tickets (with the possible exception of the Bank Charges Revolution!).

So, as part a new 'reclaim unfair parking penalties' guide... I'd love to hear your stories...

What to do

Click reply to post your experience below and if possible, give the following info

What was the fine for? Details
What was the problem with it? Details
Did you try and appeal and on what basis? Details
Did it work? Details
Other interesting stuff? Details

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Pew_Pew_Pew_Lasers! · 10 June 2008 at 6:22PM

I parked in Leeds, in a resident's only zone. Didn't notice, and didn't see any signs for it. Came out and found myself ticketed - £30 now, or £60 after 14 days.

I took photographs of everything, and went onto Pepipoo where I discovered the road markings were unenforceable because they weren't as proscribed in the road traffic act. The council had mixed two types of bays up.

I objected and had the ticket cancelled. The council admitted their mistake.

A week or so later exactly the same thing happened in Islington, except this time I had paid at a meter. Unbeknown to me, the meter only applied to one side of the road. The signage on either side was very similar, about 3 words different. From a distance they looked identical. £60 now, or £120 after 14 days.

Anyhow, the council had made exactly the same mistake, so I again complained, only the council this time made up an excuse and cancelled it, rather than admit their mistake.

Pics here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/soundman/sets/72157602969229715/

Oh, and the tickets themselves were unenforceable in both cases as they didn't contain all the information required as proscribed in the RTA, but I didn't have to go that far.

tomstickland · 10 June 2008 at 6:47PM

I occasionally read Pepipoo and there are several things worth noting.
-Many people take tickets that they think are unfair to appeal and many win the appeal.
-The rules about the marking and signing of parking bays are very strict and a large proportion of the actual bays fail to meet the rules.
-Tickets on private property are often totally unenforcable despite the quasi-legal language used.

I don't condone bad parking; indeed abuse of double yellow lines really annoys me. However, if someone receives a ticked due to a genuine mistake or uncertainty it is worth going onto Pepipoo and following their advice.

bargepole · 10 June 2008 at 7:41PM

MSE_Martin wrote: »

So, as part a new 'reclaim unfair parking fines' guide... I'd love to hear your stories...

Just to be pedantic, it would be better not to use the word "fines" in this context.

Tickets issued by Police and Councils are fixed penalties, and you can only get out of those if there was something wrong with the way the ticket was issued, the signage, or by appealing that the issue of the ticket was unfair due to mitigating circumstances.

Tickets issued by private car park operators, eg supermarkets, motorway services, etc., are simply invoices based on the presumed contract between the driver and the car park operator. They can only be enforced legally if it can be proved who was driving, and if the registered keeper declines to supply that information, there is nothing they can do.

Fines can only be issued by Courts, but very few parking issues ever reach that stage.

MelJ_2 · 10 June 2008 at 9:28PM

I received a FPN for parking in a residential zone about 1/3rd of car outside the line, no 'safety' issue for pedestrians/cars plenty of room behind - I approached the warden as he was writing ticket & questioned the fact I had been told before it was ok - he claimed less than half was inside the lines - I was going to appeal with measurements of car etc but noted he had incorrectly quoted the make of car as a volkswagon instead of a renault &had the ticket cancelled.
Previously parked in a car park, went to machine for ticket didn't have purse thought I'd lost it, frantically went back to car as warden was writing ticket, explained my situation - he didnt care & stood in front of my car until I had put it into gear - appealed as less than 2 mins to get to machine & back - it was rejected as there is no 'waiting time allowed'!

superhoop · 10 June 2008 at 10:25PM

What was the fine for? Parking in a disabled bay of a Hillingdon council car park - whilst displaying a valid blue badge

What was the problem with it? The serial number and expiry date on the badge was sun-faded and the attendant claimed it was illegible (he didn't try very hard to read it.)

Did you try and appeal and on what basis? That it was a valid blue badge issued by Hillingdon council itself, that it was legible and that it was a spurious ticket. Also that it had caused my wife who has cancer a great deal of upset that day - ironically we had attended an appointment at the Royal Marsden on day of the 'offence'.

Did it work? Yes, although after a delay of three months I had to phone up to find out what was going on. On verbally upholding the appeal I was 'ordered' by a stern council lady to take my wife's blue badge in to be re-inked so the same thing didn't happen again. (it's only happened once in two years!)

Other interesting stuff? - That there's a huge backlog of 'old' appeals since apparently new legislation means that appeals now have to be dealt with within 14 days.

- I thought traffic wardens (whoops - parking attendants!) were supposed to show leniency to disabled drivers and give them the benefit of the doubt? I know fraud does take place and it needs to be stopped - but these bureaucrats don't think about the hardship and worry hurdles like parking tickets cause to the disabled, especially those who don't have able-bodied people looking after them all the time.

- With all the modern technical wonders, can't the government come up with a blue badge identity scheme where the ink doesn't fade?

michaels · 10 June 2008 at 10:45PM

I was in a hire car (free Renault for the weekend, see motoring board) and stopped on a yellow line to allow my family to disembark - as you are allowed to do under the regulations. The enforcement camera obviously filmed the vehicle stationary and a ticket was sent to the hire company. The hire company policy is to pay the tickets plus charge an admin fee (first I knew of it was a #90 charge to my credit card) even though there is the option for them to return the ticket to the council with the name and address of the hirer.

The good bit is that the parking regulations say that once a fine has been paid it can not be appealed so even though I committed no offence I can not recover the fine or the fee. You have been warned :mad:

Deals_2 · 10 June 2008 at 11:17PM

someone we know got a fine and points were goign to be allocated for speeding. however because the fine came through to them after 14 days the solicitor (highly paid and probably the equivalent of Mr Loophoole talked about loads in the papers) he got off without a fine and no points on the licence - even though he WAS driving VERY fast. he did pay solicitor i think £1500 - but he just did not want the points. there are lots of cases like this. I think knowing how they get let off without having to pay these vasts amounts of money if the key. maybe getting a copy of the traffic laws handbook?

grezzer · 11 June 2008 at 12:08AM

Several years ago, the local car parks were free on a Sunday. On one occassion after spending 5 or 10 mins at a well known fast food store. I returned to my car to witness an attendent issuing a Penalty. When I informed him that it was free he pointed out that the Charges had changed. Sure enough the "Small" sign on the ticket machine had been updated. As it had been free for many years, I hadn't even gone to the machine to check, and there were no other signs. - I lost that 1.

About a year ago, my wife went out for the evening drinking. It was winter so she took the car (but only to store the coats). She tried to buy a ticket, but was unable to buy 1 to cover the night. The party then sensibly walked home after a good night.

I went to pick up the car the next morning, to find it already had a penalty notice. I wrote to the council explaining, and they agreed that they encouraged not drinking and driving so cancelled the ticket. - So I won 1 too. :beer:

Lexis200 · 11 June 2008 at 1:52AM

Well not necessarily unfair from a legal point of view...

I got a call a while ago at 9.30pm on a Sunday evening from the Royal Marsden Hospital in Fulham to say my Mother was there and I needed to get up there as soon as possible as she was near to passing away. I live on the South coast so I drove up as quickly as possible and parked on one of the side roads near to the hospital. I wasn't thinking too clearly, but I do remember seeing that it was free parking until (I think) 8am the next day.

The night was a traumatic one, really touch and go all night, but she struggled on.

I realised around 9am that it was in fact 9am, and I needed to pay for the parking. I ran downto the car, grabbing an extortionately priced parking ticket from the machine on the way, but when I got to the car I had already been ticketed by the warden. I left the paid for ticket on the car anyway and went back up to my Mother.

Much to the doctor's amazement, she started to recover, and I left my Brother and Dad with her as I had to sort out my family before going back to see her later that day. She eventually recovered temporarily, but died of cancer some months later.

Anyway, I wrote to the parking appeals department at the local council, telling them that, whilst I didn't dispute the fact I was in a parking bay without a ticket, I had extenuating circumstances and unfortunately paying for parking tickets 10+ hours after I arrived to possibly see my Mother pass away wasn't one of them. I even authorised them to contact the hospital to confirm everything I'd said in case they thought I was warped enough to make something like that up!

The letter I got back was curt to say the least. I was parked illegally, and unless I paid the fine within 30 days or whatever it was, it would double etc etc. Not even a "whilst I sympathise" or "sorry to hear about your troubles". Just "tough t**ies, pay the fine of we'll take you to court."

I know that technically I was in the wrong, but haven't these appeals people got a heart?

steveclecy · 11 June 2008 at 8:00AM

What was the fine for? This was actually a "charge" for overstaying in a local Aldi store, pay £40 now, or £80 in three weeks.
What was the problem with it? The letter was in "legal speak" but had errors, the main one being that it stated that the "registered keeper was responsible for naming the driver" - correct under Road Traffic Acts but not for parking on private land.
Did you try and appeal and on what basis? I sent a response including the following two paragraphs: (1)You make an incorrect assumption in law that the registered keeper is liable for the actions of the driver on private land. Your tactics in stating that this is the case are bullying.
(2)Any breach of contract by the driver in using the car park outside the terms of the contract is governed by the Unfair Contract Terms Act, 1977. The effect of this Act is that a party to the contract cannot claim a “penalty” charge, only recover reasonable losses created by the breach.
Did it work? I can only assume YES, this was June 2007 and they have not replied since.
Other interesting stuff? This particular car park had attracted a lot of correspondence in the local paper regarding "fines".

Unfair Parking Tickets: Have you appealed or spotted a loophole?

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