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Ebay just (defamated, spammed, dissed?) me to 100+ people for little reason.
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pepsi_max2k
Posts: 400 Forumite
This is a copy and paste from my ebay about me page, so sorry if any seems irrelavent. But basically, ebay just sent out the following message to around 200 (edit: 140ish) people (buyers and sellers whom i'd contacted in the past week), for very little reason (and deffintely no security issues) at all. Would I be right in thinking this almost amounts to slander and if I were a clever lawyer I could sue them for libel? There's cautious and there's just bloody stupid...
If you wanna be quick, just skip to the ebay live help chat excert (for an hour ago) below, and note i spent a while yesterday trying to ask them the same exact thing to no avail.
In the week leading up to this happening I had personally messaged around 180 different sellers to clarify details on their listings (I'm a perfectionist, and if you don't list your exact xbox hardware revision I don't know if I get decent RGB out or no RGB out at all...), not to mention the 50 odd buyers who'd bought my items.
Unfortunately, this was the only reason eBay commited libel against me, slandering my ID to over 200 people. So, here's a copy and paste of the nice chat I had with an eBay live rep (link on ebay.com) as if it would go even a tiny way to restoring any faith any current sellers had in me. Oh and, when I say do not pay me via ebay owned, fee-taking companies, I hope you understand why I say this now...
Just one point you should note - a few weeks ago one person gained access to my account, changed the password, listed about 10 nintendo wiis (as much as i think they're need from an hci interface point of view, i don't ruddy have any, as if i could actually find one...) and left it at that until a few hours later I noticed and had the account suspended and returned to myself. I let everyone who needed to know, know, and left it at that. This is the originating factor in the messages being sent, as you'll see below...
22:33:21 AgentKristopher
I see. Christopher, I apologize for this matter. During the investigation on your account, we thought that someone is accessing your account and sent large number of emails to other eBay members. We want your account to be safe that is why we reset your password.
22:33:51 Customerpepsi_max2k
i had sent quite a large amount of messages myself
22:33:54 AgentKristopher
Since your account has a record of a third party accessing on it, we are taking a closer look on all activities on your account.
22:33:58 Customerpepsi_max2k
would that be the only reason for this?
22:34:03 Customerpepsi_max2k
right
22:34:18 Customerpepsi_max2k
so there was no actual record of a third party accessing it at the time?
22:34:26 AgentKristopher
Yes , I see here that you have proved that you were the one who sent those messages.
22:34:30 Customerpepsi_max2k
other than the point it happened a couple of weels aho
22:34:37 Customerpepsi_max2k
right
22:34:45 Customerpepsi_max2k
well, thanks for keeping a closer eye on it
22:35:07 AgentKristopher
Yes, there were no unauthorized activities on that time.
22:35:19 Customerpepsi_max2k
but if possible, could someone now email every single person that was sent an email warning about me, to tell them that i am actually a perfectly legit buyer and seller?
22:35:19 AgentKristopher
Your account has been accessed only once.
22:35:43 Customerpepsi_max2k
by my 87.1XX.XXX.XXX i presume
22:36:12 AgentKristopher
Yes, I will escalate your request to email all the members who received your messages.
22:36:18 Customerpepsi_max2k
Thanks
22:36:33 Customerpepsi_max2k
That'd be really helpful if it happened
22:36:45 AgentKristopher
You're welcome. We have also put a note on your account that those emails were legitimate.
If you wanna be quick, just skip to the ebay live help chat excert (for an hour ago) below, and note i spent a while yesterday trying to ask them the same exact thing to no avail.
Important note regaring the security of my account: It pains me to do this, but does not surprise me one bit. On 23rd March 2008 eBay sent messages to around 200 eBay members (primarily sellers I was planning on purchasing items from) to inform them to be suspicious of my user account and disregard all privious corespondance with me.We'd like to let you know that an email you received recently from pepsi_max2k may be untrustworthy. We encourage you to be cautious about emails from this member and we recommend that you don't respond to any further communication from them.
Our records indicate that you recently sent an email to, or received an email from this member through the eBay email system (e.g. via "Ask Seller a Question" or "Contact eBay Member").
Sometimes people misuse eBay accounts by sending emails inviting you to buy or sell outside of eBay. They may also send questions unrelated to eBay--hoping that you will respond so that they can obtain your email address.
etc etc...
In the week leading up to this happening I had personally messaged around 180 different sellers to clarify details on their listings (I'm a perfectionist, and if you don't list your exact xbox hardware revision I don't know if I get decent RGB out or no RGB out at all...), not to mention the 50 odd buyers who'd bought my items.
Unfortunately, this was the only reason eBay commited libel against me, slandering my ID to over 200 people. So, here's a copy and paste of the nice chat I had with an eBay live rep (link on ebay.com) as if it would go even a tiny way to restoring any faith any current sellers had in me. Oh and, when I say do not pay me via ebay owned, fee-taking companies, I hope you understand why I say this now...
Just one point you should note - a few weeks ago one person gained access to my account, changed the password, listed about 10 nintendo wiis (as much as i think they're need from an hci interface point of view, i don't ruddy have any, as if i could actually find one...) and left it at that until a few hours later I noticed and had the account suspended and returned to myself. I let everyone who needed to know, know, and left it at that. This is the originating factor in the messages being sent, as you'll see below...
22:33:21 AgentKristopher
I see. Christopher, I apologize for this matter. During the investigation on your account, we thought that someone is accessing your account and sent large number of emails to other eBay members. We want your account to be safe that is why we reset your password.
22:33:51 Customerpepsi_max2k
i had sent quite a large amount of messages myself
22:33:54 AgentKristopher
Since your account has a record of a third party accessing on it, we are taking a closer look on all activities on your account.
22:33:58 Customerpepsi_max2k
would that be the only reason for this?
22:34:03 Customerpepsi_max2k
right
22:34:18 Customerpepsi_max2k
so there was no actual record of a third party accessing it at the time?
22:34:26 AgentKristopher
Yes , I see here that you have proved that you were the one who sent those messages.
22:34:30 Customerpepsi_max2k
other than the point it happened a couple of weels aho
22:34:37 Customerpepsi_max2k
right
22:34:45 Customerpepsi_max2k
well, thanks for keeping a closer eye on it
22:35:07 AgentKristopher
Yes, there were no unauthorized activities on that time.
22:35:19 Customerpepsi_max2k
but if possible, could someone now email every single person that was sent an email warning about me, to tell them that i am actually a perfectly legit buyer and seller?
22:35:19 AgentKristopher
Your account has been accessed only once.
22:35:43 Customerpepsi_max2k
by my 87.1XX.XXX.XXX i presume
22:36:12 AgentKristopher
Yes, I will escalate your request to email all the members who received your messages.
22:36:18 Customerpepsi_max2k
Thanks
22:36:33 Customerpepsi_max2k
That'd be really helpful if it happened
22:36:45 AgentKristopher
You're welcome. We have also put a note on your account that those emails were legitimate.
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Comments
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I'd be wary about offering Google Checkout as a payment option.Payment Services not permitted on eBay: AlertPay.com, anypay.com, AuctionChex.com, Billpay.ie, ecount.com, cardserviceinternational.com, CCAvenue, ecount, e-gold, eHotPay.com, ePassporte.com, EuroGiro, FastCash.com, Google Checkout, gcash, GearPay, Goldmoney.com, graphcard.com, greenzap.com, ikobo.com, Liberty Dollars, Moneygram.com, neteller.com, Netpay.com, Payko.com, paychest.com, payingfast.com, paypay, Postepay, Qchex.com, rupay.com, sendmoneyorder.com, stamps, Stormpay, Western Union, wmtransfer.com, xcoin.com.
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html
Forewarned is forearmed!<--- Nothing to see here - move along --->0 -
Believe me, nothing's worse or less safe than PayPal, and it's very clear exactly why eBay have banned all other competitive, secure online payment systems and instead forced their own high fee taking system on users. But that's not what caused this issue, and after what they've done I'd rather stay away from as much of ebay as possible.
plus, I state prefered payment as cheque and PO on all my listings. ironically, as the least safest option, ebay are happy to allow these.0 -
I have some sympathy for Ebay.
There is a history of your account being used by a third party. In order to protect you, they monitor the account and take action when there is some unusual activity.
It is highly unusual - nay unbelievable and incredible and unfathomable - when someone sends out nearly TWO HUNDRED messages. Spammers and scammers send out TWO HUNDRED messages - bona fide buyers don't. Or at least, I wouldn't have thought they did until I read your story.
Ebay acted swiftly - in your interests and in the interests of the recipients. They made a mistake and have been helpful in their response. They may even email all those sellers for you.
They've put a marker on your account, too. I wonder what they've written about you!
I think I can guess.
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Ok, I just checked again and turns out it's about 110 since 16th march. Now, bear in mind I've sold over 50 items since then. I message every single seller to confirm their details and purchase after they win an auction. So that's half of them, without any follow ups.
Probably around 30 have been me asking for details from sellers to confirm what they're actually selling (with tech hardware, you never know unless you have a pic of the circuit board or manufacture date / serial number). I've had over 100 items watched just in the past few days, and only message those that are cheapest (I set myself a price and I don't stop until I find something at that price, I am a moneysaver you know?). The rest will have been me following up replies to these.
I really don't see how 200 messages could be considered that suspicious anyway, any high volume seller should be doing this every few days due to questions, confirmations and follow ups, and if you're not you shouldn't be getting 4.7 *s in your ratings
And any "bona-fide" buyer that isn't messaging a seller for further details on an item, and isn't watching a large number of them for the cheapest, shouldn't be on MSE 
My account was accessed once, a few weeks ago. At this time I provided them with full details of what happened, confirmed I'd regained access (twice) and confirmed that no other person had access to the account. I also informed them of the party responsible (an NTL account, also notified Virgin Media's network abuse team). No other IP has accessed the account since then, or even attempted to. For any IT security team this should be almost certain evidence that no third party has accessed the account, and how on earth this could even be assumed by ebay is beyond me. Let alone the fact that they clearly didn't bother to read the contents of the messages sent, as they'd obviously see they weren't spam.
In short, for no reason other than having around 140 messages to my name in the past month, and having lost access to the account once, and with no evidence of any security breach since then, they took it upon themselves to inform everyone i'd been in contact with that there had been just this and that they should be wary of me. I have no sympathy for them at all.
I'm glad they informed me of possible issues, and asked me to alter my passoword, but informing ~140 people that my account is no longer under my control when again, they clearly knew full well on a technical level that this was not the case, is unbelievable.
May I ask, Kay Peel, what *would* you consider an acceptable level of communication on ebay? Or indeed, what would you consider and acceptable level of activity on there? Is there an amount of purchases or sales one should keep below, lest face the prospect of every person you do communicate with being informed you're a security risk?0 -
pepsi_max2k wrote: »
I really don't see how 200 messages could be considered that suspicious anyway.....
In short, for no reason other than having around 140 messages to my name in the past month, and having lost access to the account once....
May I ask, Kay Peel, what *would* you consider an acceptable level of communication on ebay?
I have every sympathy with Ebay and think they behaved correctly. No doubt they have systems in place when an extraordinary number of messages are transmitted from particular kinds of accounts - powersellers, high volume businesses, low volume buyers etc.
Your account is a vulnerable one and they monitored it.
I would say that over a hundred messages from a 'vulnerable' account that has been recently hacked, would be highly suspicious. If I were in Ebay's account monitoring department, I would say 'the account's been hacked again and some idiot is spamming or scamming or trying to do deals outside the auction. Let's warn the recipients.'
Which is exactly what Ebay did.
I'd start a new account if I were you.
Kay0 -
>> I'd start a new account if I were you.
had done a few weeks ago
and it's not what they did do but what they didn't do - actually investigating anything. I find it hard to belive anyone in IT security would think "the account's been hacked again" without any reason, and the very first thing you'd check in a case like this is IP access, the nature of the problem including the contents of the messages, and general account behaviour history eg. "oh look, they have 100 items watched, and most of the messages were to these people or to previous buyers, and all relate to confirming sale or purchase details, this is not suspicious at all...".
Obviously there's no one doing this, and they just have an automatic system flagging things and sending out messages regardless of the issue and the affect they may have on a user. For a high volume seller something like this could be catastrophic, resulting in the loss of who knows how many sales and general reputation.
It basically leaves open anyone who's account has at one point seen suspicious activity (and this seems to happen to far too many people; note that in my case this was not phishing, was very unlikely to have been sniffed, and ebay wouldn't confirm brute force) to eBay then notifying all your buyers / sellers, weeks or months after any issue has been resolved, that you are not to be trusted. What triggers this may or may not be vaguely suspicious, but clearly isn't investigated at all so could seemingly happen to anyone if they do the wrong thing. That's my problem. That and the fact they still did this while having technical details all but confirming there was no need to. but alas... at least most of the listings I'd contacted people on have ended now.... so until they decide I can't contact the sellers of everything else I'm interested, there's not so much harm done...0 -
If you subscribe to seller manager (free) or pro(4.99 per month), you can send automated emails that do not use up your message limit.
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/selling_manager/
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/selling_manager_pro/
Auto email for item won, reminder invoice if ncessary, payment received, item dispatched and feedback reminder if necessary. Personally this has earned me 4.8 for communications on over 1200 ratings, and 4.9 over the last 30 days o a rolling basis, and it requires no extra effort from me, bar a one-off effort in customising the email templates to my own liking.
You should really be using separate accounts for buying and selling as well - this way you can send ebay messages to potential sellers from a buying account, and reply to messages from your selling account. Although it will be irrelevant soon anyway, and retalitory negs you may receive as a buyer will not affect your selling account.
Another red flag that may have raised ebay's suspicion is the fact you are messaging console sellers - anyone who has listed electronics will be familiar with the "Hello, we are your friendly Chinese iPod/laptop.mp3/psp wholesaler" messages. Although I understand your specific need for asking questions, the situations you have explained mimics account take over activity - hijacked accounts are also used for scamming sellers out of their goods, and buyers out of their money.
It's their game, and their rules. You may not be intentionally be breaking them, but a few ticks have fallen in the right/wrong boxes and ebay have taken the action they thought prudent at the time with the information they had. The first rule of eBay Trust and Safety is to "Shoot first, ask Questions Later"<--- Nothing to see here - move along --->0 -
>> The first rule of eBay Trust and Safety is to "Shoot first, ask Questions Later"
yeah, had noticed that before
I did use paypal's auto emails in the past but obviously aren't too keen on using them now, and I'm perfectly happy to manually message all sellers. I actually send one invoice and one confirmation after winning, one confirmation after payment, and one confirmation after posting, and reply to anything else they ask. I've never recieved that many from anyone i've ever purchased off, and there's still people marking me down on comms. i mean, i could not communicate with them more if i tried
i did actually start a new account before all this with the intention of using it for sales only, just waiting to level it up before using it.
my main point is just the account was clearly not hijacked. i can tell this from the limited amount of info they've let me in on, lord knows they could have known this if they wanted to. yet they still took action that could have had a pretty bad effect. it's almost as bad as whoever wrote the O2 broadband signup procedure asuming everyone would have access to a mobile able to recieve texts at the point of sign up. and they don't even error check the numbers maybe will go put an ebay exec's mobile in to it a few hundred times... 0 -
I have every sympathy with Ebay and think they behaved correctly. No doubt they have systems in place when an extraordinary number of messages are transmitted from particular kinds of accounts - powersellers, high volume businesses, low volume buyers etc.
Your account is a vulnerable one and they monitored it.
I would say that over a hundred messages from a 'vulnerable' account that has been recently hacked, would be highly suspicious. If I were in Ebay's account monitoring department, I would say 'the account's been hacked again and some idiot is spamming or scamming or trying to do deals outside the auction. Let's warn the recipients.'
Which is exactly what Ebay did.
I'd start a new account if I were you.
Kay
I would agree here, I doubt the average user sends anywhere near 100 personal messages via Ebay in a month, their security procedures would not constitute libel either.
You should also edit your title, unless Ebay stood in the street with a megaphone, it would be impossible for them to have slandered you. Slander has to be spoken.====0 -
I would agree here, I doubt the average user sends anywhere near 100 personal messages via Ebay in a month.
100 doesn't sound a lot to me. As to whether or not I'm an average user, I couldn't say, but my ebay messages presently total 292 messages received, 120 sent (I send a lot of replies through email where it's allowed). I don't send confirmations of order, and only reply to those that ask a valid question. I contact quite a few other sellers asking questions too, and I have a separate buying account which scythes off another 50-60 per month, so I could quite easily exceed 2-300 monthly.
BaffExclamation and question marks - ONE exclamation mark or question mark is sufficient to exclaim or ask about something. More than one just makes you look/sound like a prat.
Should OF, would OF. Dear oh dear. You really should have, or should've listened at school when that nice English teacher was explaining how words get abbreviated.0
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