Land Conveyance?

tarajayne · 17 February 2008 at 1:15PM

We had to have retaining works done to the side of our new house to enable us to get our NHBC. The neighbours were unhelpful so to ease the situation we let them have a say in how it looked, fence height etc, and also gave them a small strip of land (only 2-3ft) so that the new fence was not so over-powering to their kitchen door. At the time my husband, who is in construction, explained that on completetion the land conveyance would need changing but that as they had the land for nothing they could sort that. He went over to them yesterday as it's nearly done and asked when they would be doing it and they said they weren't, they have already laid patio on the land and have put benches on it, they are now selling and said their solicitor is going to include the new land when they sell, he swore at my husband and when it was pointed out that they don't actually own the land yet he said 'so'!

We are gobsmacked, can they do this?

BlondeHeadOn · 17 February 2008 at 5:13PM

If their house is already on the market, inform their estate agent. When we bought our current house the vendor didn't own all the land - he'd just 'appropriated' some extra garden a few years back. This was spotted by the solicitor from the registry plans, and the house sale was held up for 6 months while the vendor shouted at eveyone. He even threatened his estate agent, who told the vendor that he couldn't re-advertise the house with the current details because he now knew they were wrong!

Upshot was, the vendor had to buy the extra bit of land before we'd agree to exchange - no way round it.

If the land registry still has this land as yours, then they can't sell their house with it - and I'd be tempted to just take it back from them, ungratefuls sods!!!

Let us know what happens....

phead · 17 February 2008 at 5:42PM

tarajayne wrote: »

We are gobsmacked, can they do this?

No, you still own it, and now they are in dispute with you which puts you in a great position as they are trying to sell.

Send them a letter telling them they need to sort out the land transfer , and pay all legal costs *including yours*, don't say anything more.(This makes the dispute more formal) If they don't do so then point out to their estate agent that they are selling your land!

Their solicitor will know nothing about this, and would not be legally able to draw up a contract if he knows part of the land is owned by someone else.

Doozergirl · 18 February 2008 at 11:19AM

Sounds like they are in a problem area!

I agree with phead, you are in the position now where you could actually cause trouble for them! It is only in their interests to get the conveyancing done and they will discover this when the boundaries don't match.

You do need to let someone know - I suggest writing to both the neighbour and the EA formally to inform them that you had agreed to give the land over for free, but that it hasn't been registered, that they will have trouble selling without proper title and that considering that the land is free, you will require them to pay for the full conveyancing cost.

If they lie on their Property Information Form, it'll cost them more when the new owners find out and have to deal with the new boundary issue.

They'll get it sorted when it comes up properly!

Sound like nice people :rolleyes:

Richard_Webster · 18 February 2008 at 12:49PM

Depends a bit how obvious the discrepancy is. Some buyers don;'t check that there is a difference between the plan shown them by their solicitor and the position on the ground. If it is only a small area it might not be noticed. The sellers could in practice get away with selling their house and garden with its existing title and the buyers might not spot that there was an extra area physically included in the garden that actually still belonged to OP.

So it could be years later that some future buyer and his solicitor discover the discrepancy and try to sort it out!

I would write to the neighbour saying that the land is till registered in your name and you are happy to transfer it if their solicitor prepares the necessary documents but if this is not done it could cause problems later for the neighbour, particularly if you have moved...

This kind of thing does happen. I know of a case where developer built estate of terraces and semis in the late 1960s. At that time it was the fashion to offer the new houses with garages an optional extras as they were in blocks or in small groups scattered around the estate.

So in 1968 Mr & Mrs A buy house with mortgage and 3 months later decide they would like a garage and they manage to buy cash a garage nearby but not immediately adjoining the property - separate Land Registry title is issued for it.

In 1980 they sell the house to Mr & Mrs B and hand over the keys to the garage. The As didn't tell their solcitors there was a separate title to the garage and the Bs didn't look the plans and ask where the garage was!

In 1988 the Bs sell to Mr & Mrs C and the same thing happens - keys handed over and garage not actually transferred legally - only the house.

1999 I am acting for the Cs in selling and I read the agents particulars and can't work out where the garage is. They tell me and I check at the Land Registry and point out that it was registered in the name of Mr & Mrs A in 1968!

All because nobody looked at the plans! So a small strip in the garden could easily not be noticed!

tarajayne · 16 March 2008 at 12:14PM

:wall:
UPDATE.
Nhbc agreed to take on works to complete the retaining wall in Feb in order that they would be able to issue our final certificate. Neighbours kicked off on my doorstep, f!?ing and cursing (in front of my children) saying that we had approached the Nhbc deliberatly trying to make the works take longer in order to delay the sale of their house, HUH? (as if I wanted them to stay a day longer). Nhbc have been fantastic and started works 2 weeks ago. Fri last week the neighbours stopped works, exactly as they did last year, this time was because they don't want rain water from our 4ft path going onto their land, also the holes from the french drain in the side of the wall may occasionally drip a little water. The strip of land they are refering to is still in our ownership although they have put their paving slabs on it to extend their patio and have gone right up to the wall, therefore not leaving a gravel strip that would have been best for drainage. I have had enough and now want the fence put pack on our legal boundary in order to get this finished, nothing has been put in writing, so can we just return the fence to where it was last July or can they now insist it belongs to them, HELP!!!

Richard_Webster · 17 March 2008 at 11:36AM

Try to contact both the neighbour's solicitors and the buyer''s solcitors - ask the estate agents for their details and if they won;'t give them then ask them to forward letters. Send an advise receipt letter to the neighbour putting the position on record that part of what appears to be his garden is not and you want the paving slabs removed.

The neighbour may be facing questions from his buyers and their solicitors about the building work and instead of addressing the questions sensibly, is just flying off the handle. If you can get through to them what is actually happening then the seller's solicitors will be able to pin him down to dealing with the issue.

If you can't get to the solicitors then a letter to the seller sent so that you get evidence of delivery (you must keep a copy of it!) will at least mean that he will have something he should be revealing to the buyers. The letter could amongst other things ask for the removal of the paving slabs from your land. Once the buyers move in you can contact them and if the matter hasn't been sorted out before, then you can tell them about the letter sent to the seller. You can say that you tried to contact them but could only go through the agents and if that didn't work then they can blame the agents and the seller but they won't blame you! You will then have to sort something out with the buyers. (Obviously it is better that the buyers find out and apply pressure to the seller before the sale goes through, but if that doesn't work you need a fall back...)

I do have to tell you though that the transfer of the land isn't quite as simple as you think. Someone will have to draw up a proper scaled plan showing the exact area to be transferred and you will have to get your mortgage lender to release that area from their mortgage. You are therefore likely to need a solicitor to act for you in this in any event. Whether you will get anyone else to pay the costs of that is an open question.

tarajayne · 17 March 2008 at 5:29PM

Scaled plans already drawn up, Nhbc are meeting them tomorrow and our mind has been made up, either the original plans are followed as they originally wanted and we all agreed to, or the fence goes back on the original boundary line as currently registered with land registry. What my partner was concerned about was whether or not after 8 months of no fence they could just claim the land as rightfully theirs?

Richard_Webster · 17 March 2008 at 6:03PM

Can't claim land as their's that quickly. Your correspondence asking them to remove flagstones etc from your land will help negative any claim if they make it later - but 8 months is nowhere near long enough!

chappers · 17 March 2008 at 6:14PM

Richard_Webster wrote: »

Depends a bit how obvious the discrepancy is. Some buyers don;'t check that there is a difference between the plan shown them by their solicitor and the position on the ground. If it is only a small area it might not be noticed. The sellers could in practice get away with selling their house and garden with its existing title and the buyers might not spot that there was an extra area physically included in the garden that actually still belonged to OP.

So it could be years later that some future buyer and his solicitor discover the discrepancy and try to sort it out!

I would write to the neighbour saying that the land is till registered in your name and you are happy to transfer it if their solicitor prepares the necessary documents but if this is not done it could cause problems later for the neighbour, particularly if you have moved...

This kind of thing does happen. I know of a case where developer built estate of terraces and semis in the late 1960s. At that time it was the fashion to offer the new houses with garages an optional extras as they were in blocks or in small groups scattered around the estate.

So in 1968 Mr & Mrs A buy house with mortgage and 3 months later decide they would like a garage and they manage to buy cash a garage nearby but not immediately adjoining the property - separate Land Registry title is issued for it.

In 1980 they sell the house to Mr & Mrs B and hand over the keys to the garage. The As didn't tell their solcitors there was a separate title to the garage and the Bs didn't look the plans and ask where the garage was!

In 1988 the Bs sell to Mr & Mrs C and the same thing happens - keys handed over and garage not actually transferred legally - only the house.

1999 I am acting for the Cs in selling and I read the agents particulars and can't work out where the garage is. They tell me and I check at the Land Registry and point out that it was registered in the name of Mr & Mrs A in 1968!

All because nobody looked at the plans! So a small strip in the garden could easily not be noticed!

Indeed my Brother in law tried to buy a house with a strip of land mis registered from years ago it became such anightmare he just walked away there was money changing hands between solicitors from several purchases ago,

I would say sod them and write to them telling them to remove their stuff from your land and then put up your fence if they refuse then do as Richard says and write to the solictors making them aware of the neighbour dispute.
Make it clear to them how this can affect their current sale.
how can some people be so ungrateful.

takoo · 17 March 2008 at 6:19PM

If the agents know of the land would they not be contravening the Property Misdiscriptions Act by continuing to promote the dwelling?

If the solicitor know of the dispute must they not let any buyers know through the "20 questions from?

if the home information pack devisor knows of the land would the HIP not contain details?

Takoo

Land Conveyance?

Comments

Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply

🚀 Getting Started

Categories

Is this how you want to be seen?

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free