Visa Waiver Programme

northstar23 · 22 October 2007 at 10:20AM

Hi all... first time poster. Apologies for revisiting an age old topic but I'm stumped.

I spent 3 hours last night trawling through all the info I could find on the Visa Waiver entry to the US and it made things as clear as mud.

In Sept 2005 I collected 6 points on my licence and a £200 fine for driving without insurance. (Entirly not my fault for anyone casting aspersions). I was never arrested... just had a summons appear in the post. I pleaded guilty, didn't attend court and just recived postal notification of the fine.

Now last night I decided to take a trip to New York at Christmas and thought it would be best to check out the Visa Waiver rules and here starts the problem. The US Embassy site gives criteria to entry... but then says that anyone with any arrest or conviction in any country at any time requires a Visa, excluding certain minor traffic offences.

My question to anyone with experience is this... do I still qualify for Visa Waiver? It seems to me that anyone who has ever committed a traffic offence will have by definition have a conviction, which surely renders the whole "minor traffic offences" statement a paradox.

As I said I'm totally stumped on this. I can't believe that anyone who has so much as challenges a parking fine in court ends up requiring a Visa. Truthfully I can't be bothered to spend a day queing at an embassy and spending over £100 on it and will end up holidaying elsewhere. I'd still like to go to the US but these rules seem daft.

Any thoughts?
I'm not the kind of bloke who could book a holiday then lie on the forms. Too much stress would happen through wondering if I'd get deported as soon as I got there.

iltisman · 22 October 2007 at 11:32AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude

dzug · 22 October 2007 at 11:37AM

The rules on US London Embassy website are far more restrictive than actual US law. I think they work on the premise that the law/rules are complicated, let us decide, and by the way that will be $100.

I think you can quite truthfully answer 'no' to the question on the visa waiver form - no moral turpitude involved

alanrowell · 22 October 2007 at 12:22PM

Travelers with minor traffic offenses which did not result in an arrest and/or conviction for the offense may travel visa free, provided they are otherwise qualified.

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_new/visa/niv/arrests_and_convictions.html

northstar23 · 22 October 2007 at 9:19PM

Many thanks for the responses.I agree with what dzug says... I can truthfully answer the question on the form in the negative.However, is alanrowell suggesting I need a visa? The Embassy website just spins you round in circles. As I said I was never arrested, but by definition both myself and anyone who has ever commited a traffic offence has been convicted, thus rendering the whole caveat on the website irrelevant, and if its irrelevant why post it?I'm going to pop down the travel agents in the morning and see if they can shed any light on the matter. It just seems a total grey area... lots of theory but no actual fact on what is/ is not eligable.

jonesMUFCforever · 22 October 2007 at 9:24PM

Can I add my 2p worth?

Driving without insurance is not a minor offence!
Fine - court - summons - suggests a criminal record even if you did not go to court.
I would check with the court that issued the summons to see exactly where you stand or go on holiday somewhere else.

dzug · 22 October 2007 at 9:34PM

A travel agent will tell you to get a visa - not because you need one, but to cover themselves if anything goes wrong. I wouldn't bother them.

dzug · 22 October 2007 at 9:41PM

ejones999 wrote: »

Can I add my 2p worth?

Driving without insurance is not a minor offence!
Fine - court - summons - suggests a criminal record even if you did not go to court.
I would check with the court that issued the summons to see exactly where you stand or go on holiday somewhere else.

Nor is drink driving a minor offence. But it is not a crime of moral turpitude and does not debar you from a visa waiver.

The question you are actually asked when you get to the USA is not 'do you have a criminal record?' but:

Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more; or been controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities?

which is a rather more specific question.

northstar23 · 22 October 2007 at 9:45PM

dzug... that's sound logic about the travel agents.ejones... the US Embassy website does not define a "minor offence"... and as I've already said by their own words anyone with a conviction (be it insurance, speeding, dangerous cycling) is not eligable. Surely the whole statement is then irrelevant?I've just read a very long story on another website about a woman in a very similar situation who spent near enough £500 visiting the Embassy to get a Visa only to be virtually accused of time wasting and was laughed out of the building. So it seems that the Embassy, its Website, the US State Department and the Foreign & Commonwealth office of every participating country of the VWP are issuing wildly different advice. Confusion reigns.

Vampgirl · 22 October 2007 at 10:07PM

I wouldn't bother going to the embassy or a travel agent - as has already been suggested, they will just tell you to get one just in case.

I've just returned from the states and as dzug says, the questions on the I-94W form are very specific (you can see the form here tho its a bit difficult to read: http://www.immihelp.com/visas/i-94w.html) and even with traffic offenses you can still truthfully answer "NO".

trets77 · 23 October 2007 at 1:50AM

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=35343&highlight=visa+waiver

also a small tip ...make very sure you airline collects the the bit of the form that remains stapled in your passport on the flight home (they should do it at the gate when you board the plane !!!) , other wise you will end up having the bother of sending it back to kentucky with proof you left within 90 days, and it could see you with problems next time you fly over.

if they don,t collected it , refuse to board until they take it off you

Visa Waiver Programme

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