I can't believe banks can get away with this...

mippy · 4 April 2005 at 1:07PM

I bank with Abbey and have my salary paid into my account with them each month. Usually I have been allowed to go up to £50 overdrawn each month, which has been very handy as I am on a modest salary, almost all of which is taken up with my rent and debt repayments- I relied on it on a regular basis to buy essentials such as groceries. Each month my statement would tell me that a few pence interest would be deducted as I'd pay it off once it got paid.

Anyway, last month's statement informed me that as I'd become overdrawn by £44 I would be charged £20 for each transaction- £80 of charges in all. That was all my income for the month left over after rent, bills and debt repayments. I rang up to complain that I had never been charged for being overdrawn before and in addition this would leave me in some financial difficulties- had I known of the charge I would have avoided going overdrawn. 2 of the charges- £40 - were reversed 'as a gesture of goodwill'. I wasn't entirely happy with this but didn't want to get angry with the innocent call centre staff!

This morning I rang telephone banking again to check my balance, as I don't work near to a branch. I was told that three transactions had gone through and made me overdrawn again, and so I would be charged £60 next month. These transactions added up to slightly more than £5. The call-centre man gave me the usual spiel about the charges being a deterrent, to which I responded that £60 charges for £5 overdrawn was verging on the obscene. Besides, shouldn't my card have been declined if there was nothing in the account? (I had been expecting something to be paid into my account and wasn't sure when it would arrive.) I was told that it was my responsibility to look after the account and there was nothing they could do. I'm not sure how they can justify levering such a hefty charge for a small sum, and as my contract at work ends this month it makes me very worried about how I'm going to be able to manage my living expenses! I'm quite livid about this but the staff member I spoke to made me feel as though I was being tight in trying to complain and get the charges reversed.....

Annie_SW · 4 April 2005 at 1:16PM

Do you have an agreed overdraft limit ? If you do then personally (no expert !) I see no reason for the additional charges.

mippy · 4 April 2005 at 1:24PM

I hadn't, but I hadn't been charged previously. That was my point.

I asked several times for a small overdraft (£50 or so) to cover me in case of emergency but kept being told my account hadn't been used often enough.

I can understand they don't want people to go overdrawn, but £60 of charges for £5 of transactions?

louise1234_2 · 4 April 2005 at 1:28PM

It appears you know you have no overdraft yet allowed your account to go overdrawn.

Just because they haven't charged you before, doesn't mean they forfeit the right to charge you.

It will all be in the small print - ie the Terms and comditions you signed when opening the account.

Sorry if it's not what you want to hear.

mippy · 4 April 2005 at 1:31PM

I can see what you mean but can't understand why I was charged one month and not previously. I didn't recieve any change to my T+Cs that indicated charges would begin to go on the account. I'm also more cross that they've taken three charges out on the same day for such a small sum of money....afaik you can be charged once on one day for bounced cheques so it seems excessive.

esalan · 4 April 2005 at 1:34PM

Tell them that if they don't withdraw the charges you'll take your business elsewhere. And if that doesn't work, then take it elsewhere!

mippy · 4 April 2005 at 1:40PM

I'm worried they might come back to me and start sending debt collectors for their £60..,

Speaking to the Call Centre staff gets me nowhere, I complained enough to the one today and all he could do was give me a stock response. I suppose they don't have the authority to change anything.

ED · 4 April 2005 at 1:46PM

mippy wrote : "This morning I rang telephone banking again to check my balance, as I don't work near to a branch" and "I had been expecting something to be paid into my account and wasn't sure when it would arrive"

An idea to help avoid future frustration and expense would be for you to log-in first thing in the morning (eg before work) on any day you aim to pay via the account. This way you can confirm arrival of an expected credit.

Unfortunately, since Abbey was taken over there have been several info sheets sent out announcing changes in Terms + Conditions.

Best of luck with securing more work, and so more credits to your Abbey account, and hopefully granting of a reasonable overdraft.

mippy · 4 April 2005 at 2:37PM

That's a good tip...thanks.

I only use the internet at work and in the library, so I'm not thoroughly comfortable with using online banking. I also have a rotary dial phone so using telephone banking is a bit of a pain...I've gone into branches in the hope of sorting out things in the past and have been sent to the phone! Silly.

I've been spending most of my income in clearing off as much debt as possible whilst on a contract (I'm usually a temp) so £60 makes a big difference.

davidcampbell · 4 April 2005 at 8:41PM

mippy wrote:

I've gone into branches in the hope of sorting out things in the past and have been sent to the phone! Silly.

QUOTE]

i work for abbey and i have to say of all the things that as a company we do badly (and there are many) this is the one which annoys me the most :mad:

if you want branch staff to deal with it stick to your guns (if necessary ask them why it cant be dealt with in branch)

Speaking to the Call Centre staff gets me nowhere, I complained enough to the one today and all he could do was give me a stock response. I suppose they don't have the authority to change anything.

true to an extent. depends on who you get. i tend to be slightly more generous with my charge reversals/refunds however thats because i have a good enough relationship with my manager that i can justify my reasoning behind refunding charges. some of my colleagues will refund much less often just based on how easily they feelthey canjustify it.

contrary to belief we dont get monitored on charge reversals (providing we can give a reasoned justification)

having said that what louise said is true. you may have "got away with it" in previous months for any number of reasons however this doesnt mean you will always.

based on what you have said you have had 7 transactions go through your account without ensuring sufficient funds to cover them.

at the end of the day you have spent someone elses money and while the charges seem excessive they are supposed to be a deterrent. without wanting to sound as if im lecturing the £80 charges last month should have been a deterrent to stop you incurring any more (and they werent).

sorry if that sounds harsh. i can appreciate you expected a payment which didnt materialise .... and it doesnt seem fair i agree for something not your fault.

what was expected in? wages/benefits etc? have you a confirmation they should have been paid today? if so company/benefits office should cover your charges ... ?

I'm worried they might come back to me and start sending debt collectors for their £60..,

this wont happen. if you are consistently overdrawn the acc MAY be referred to our (inhouse) debt management department but we wont sell the debt unless you cant (or wont) stick to any arrangement we set up

Besides, shouldn't my card have been declined if there was nothing in the account?

believe me you are not the first and will not be the last to suffer this. if you get your card swiped, as a bank we can only decline it (or accept it) if we know about it.

most retailers have a "floor limit". (might be say £10 for a newsagents up to £30 for a restaurant etc). any transation below this limit will be authorised on their own system .... you give them your card is the same as saying i can afford to pay you ... take it off this card (the retailer doesnt care if you cant afford it because they will get paid regardless).

so therefore any transaction done in this way is only known to the bank when it is collected .... at which point you may go overdrawn.

you need to KNOW you have money in your account - not just think you do. (which i appreciate is sometimes easier said than done)

re the charges ..... based on your situation it may be possible to "split" the charges. perhaps over 2 months from when your next payment goes in?? call up and ask ...

as i said i really dont intend this to sound like a lecture just trying to give some background as to whats happened.

if i can advise on anything else let me know

good luck

DC

Walletwatch · 4 April 2005 at 8:58PM

Good balanced reply, DC, and that was immensely helpful in understanding the mechanism from the Customer services point of view for such situations.

As for the query raised by the OP, fully agree with DC, just to add however, that don't push your luck any more, and DO NOT get into a situation where you have to go overdrawn ever again. You cannot quote the Bank not having charged you in the past as a precedent for not bearing these charges any more, if it has always been part of the T&Cs.

I can't believe banks can get away with this...

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