Debit Card Fraud -- Who is responsible

Lillekat2 · 22 March 2005 at 10:10AM

Ths just happened to a friend of mine.

While checking his current account mini statement, he noticed a transaction for 1500 which wasn't his. He immediately went into the branch and was told that it was a purchase of foreign currency and they though that it was odd as it didn't fit in with his spending pattern (he doesn't even have a passport!)

He duly filled in the forms and the money was recredited to his account. A couple of weeks later he gets a letter from the bank saying they have "checked the transaction" and found it to be good so are redebiting his account????

Apparently the currency was ordered online and presumably picked up by the fraudster. THey seemed to have some deatails of my friends name & address so it could possible be identity theft?

I have a copy of the banking code and section 12.12 says that if someone else uses your card details while the card is still in your possession then you are not liable. Dow that not apply here? Does it make a difference that the currency was ordered online?

Any advice gratefully received.
Thanks
Lillekat

grumbler · 22 March 2005 at 11:19AM

I am not expert in this. Hope, somebody will give more professional advice.

1) Do not give up. Keep pressure on bank that the transaction is fraudulent.

2). Read T&C. The following quotation is from my A&L T&C (just for example):

If someone uses Your Card details without Your permission and Your Card has not been stolen, You will not have to pay anything unless You have acted fraudulently or without reasonable care.

As far as I understand it is a bank’s job to prove that your friend acted fraudulently or without reasonable care.

3) What about 3-digit security number? I am not sure, but is not it true that if seller does not request it during online purchase the seller takes the risk and the seller is responsible?

4) Where was the currency delivered? Good companies that do not want to take a risk deliver only to the address the card is registered at. Again, if it was delivered to other address or without proper check of ID it is the company’s risk and responsibility.(?)

I do not think you should deal with company regarding (3) and (4). It is the bank’s job to get proof from the company that your friend authorised the transaction.

jonesMUFCforever · 22 March 2005 at 9:32PM

I totally agree with the above post. Pressurise the bank by complaining direct to Head Office rather than the branch, but if you did not authorise the transaction then you should not be held responsible for the amount debited.
Eric

ronnie_2 · 22 March 2005 at 11:17PM

Your friend should phone the banks fraud department to dispute why they are taking the money back from there account, after all if they recredited the account isnt that the bank confirming that they are happy that fraud had taken place. (therefore accepting that your friend was still in ownership of there bankcard)

Also your friend would have had to report this matter to the police for crime ref purposes, police should have the power to find out from place that paid out the currency what id was provided when the currency was collected, (they should have kept a copy of this) also cctv footage and finally if the company that provided the currency is a decent sized operation then surely there fruad department could trace the ip address of the computer used to make the transaction.

grumbler · 22 March 2005 at 11:35PM

ronnie wrote:

... after all if they recredited the account isnt that the bank confirming that they are happy that fraud had taken place. (therefore accepting that your friend was still in ownership of there bankcard)...

I cannot agree with this. In the same situation with credit card they consider the transaction as ‘disputed transaction’ and re-credit account temporarily - for the time of investigation.

Lillekat2 · 23 March 2005 at 10:25AM

Thanks for your replies -- I have passed them on! He has now been told to get in touch with the serious fraud department at the bank and then back to his branch. Seems a lot of faffing about if you ask me! He has also filled out a crime report with the police which should help.

Thanks again
Lillekat

Big_Nige · 26 March 2005 at 11:17PM

If the card has not been out of the possession of the owner the owner i.e. not lost or stolen then it has been compromised, ie someone has obtained a receipt or statement showing card no. exp date etc. If the matter is reported to the police they can investigate & possibly prosecute. If the goods/services were purchased over the phone or internet & the retailer didn't ask for the 3 digit no on the back of the card to prove the purchaser was in possession of the card, then they are are at fault & are carrying out bad business practice. The bank should reimburse you so long as you have taken all reasonable steps to protect your card nos. etc. Just keep fighting them. Ultimatlely we all pay for this type of crime through increased bank charges & low savings interest rates, the bank (like "the house" in casinos ) always wins.

MarkyMarkD · 27 March 2005 at 3:53PM

When I've ordered currency online, they have been very rigorous in checking the full card details at the time of collecting the cash. I'd expect any foreign exchange organisation allowing online sales to do this. Travelex also take an imprint (using the old-fashioned credit card click-clack machines) to prove they've seen the card.

It sounds like the foreign exchange organisation has allowed this fraud to happen.

jonesMUFCforever · 27 March 2005 at 9:34PM

MarkyMarkD wrote:

When I've ordered currency online, they have been very rigorous in checking the full card details at the time of collecting the cash. I'd expect any foreign exchange organisation allowing online sales to do this. Travelex also take an imprint (using the old-fashioned credit card click-clack machines) to prove they've seen the card.

It sounds like the foreign exchange organisation has allowed this fraud to happen.

Could be that someone has their fingers in the till there?
Eric

lisssa · 27 March 2005 at 10:15PM

Hi

Hopefully the fraud dept will now sort out your friends problem. I cant beleive that a website that sells currency online wouldnt ask for at least the 3 digit security code, as that is usually the norm for normal purchases let alone cash. It may be worth him contacting the company that debited his account to see what he can find out from them. I would have thought, the company would also insist on any purchase of currency being signed for and proof of identity obtained at this point. may be worth looking into ??
Normally the bank will ask the retailer to prove that the transaction was authorised by the CH and the correct checks taken, if not its a straight forward chargeback back to the company. Companies normally do not have much protection against fraudulent internet transactions unless they have something like 3d secure installed within their payment mechanism ( sorry getting abit techie and boring now !!)

Also has the bank issued your friend with a new card? if they havent he must insist they do, as it sounds like his card details have been compromised and if its happened once, it could happen again !!

If your friend has no joy, PM me, as I work for a CC company and I will find out abit more of the card scheme regs relating to debit card and internet transactions.

Hope that helps

lisa

Debit Card Fraud -- Who is responsible

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