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Faulty Washing Machine from Makro as business - Any rights?

My washing machine bought about 1 year 5 months ago is faulty. Twice during a wash it the lights have started blinking indicating a problem with the heater or the heat sensor. The manual just says to get it repaired. I've been able to get rid of the lights and wash again but I'm still thinking it's down to sheer luck (power cycling multiple times).

The washing machine is out of its 1 year guarantee and was bought from Makro under my mum's business account. I THINK my SoGA rights are washed away with that (unless 1 year 5 months is a 'reasonable time' as detailed on business link) but I'm not entirely certain, so I was wondering if anyone thought I still had rights?

I know I'm jumping the gun the little bit since I haven't called them, but my mum doesn't seem too confident in Makro's customer service. And I know I probably have plenty of other options before buying a new one, but obviously checking to see if I can get anything done for free comes first :p.
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Comments

  • Darksun
    Darksun Posts: 1,931 Forumite
    Well, for a washing machine I wouldn't say a year and 5 months is a 'reasonable' amount of time, I'd expect it to last 10+ years through normal use. I'm not sure if buying it through a business account makes any difference to your rights under the sales of goods act though.

    Anyway, speak to Makro first and see what they say, if they flat out refuse when you first ask them then get a quote for a repair (can't imagine replacing a sensor would cost too much, but I can't say I know the first thing about washing machines). Once you've got an idea of the costs you can decide whether to pursue the case with Makro further
  • neilmcl
    neilmcl Posts: 19,460 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 26 January 2010 at 12:46AM
    There's 2 issues here I believe. Firstly your mum purchased the washing machine, not you, so if anything she would be the consumer. The second, and probably the more important one is that if she purchased it as a business then consumer legislation such as SOGA wouldn't apply.

    Can you clarify something please? When you say that your mum purchased the machine via her business account, what exactly do you mean? Did she pay for it out of business funds and hence it is/was an asset of her company or did she pay for it privately out of her own funds and in her name? For instance, I've a membership account at Makro in my company name but that doesn't stop me from buying things there outside of my business.
  • The page I linked to says that SoGA partially applies to businesses. I quote:
    If a customer rejects faulty goods within this 'reasonable' period, they're entitled to ask for their money back. All customers can claim compensation at any time if they choose. If you sell to consumers - not other traders - they can ask for a repair or a replacement immediately (instead of asking for a refund) at any time until six years after purchase.

    I always thought thought that the reasonable time for rejecting goods was different from the reasonable time that goods are expected to last (not mentioned there), and so I wouldn't have a case under SoGA as while the latter would be probably the full 6 years the former wouldn't even meet 1.5 years. For example it also says "A legal definition of 'reasonable' is not given though - it varies from case to case and could be just a few weeks from the date of purchase."

    neil: My mum bought it using her Makro membership that's in her company name but bought it entirely for private use with private funds. Surely that doesn't give her consumer rights though, as it seems you're insinuating? (Unless it was bought on my Dad's card and a spouse-of-business card is not a business card, but I'm assuming it is)

    (And yes I know that it'll be my mum/dad who have the rights and not me, should be manageable though)

    Darksun: Well it also says that it could be the heater itself (although the clothes are washing fine). Again, I know I'm jumping the gun here by not contacting Makro first, but I just want to be prepared before arguing with them :p
  • neilmcl
    neilmcl Posts: 19,460 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    DrScotsman wrote: »
    neil: My mum bought it using her Makro membership that's in her company name but bought it entirely for private use with private funds. Surely that doesn't give her consumer rights though, as it seems you're insinuating? (Unless it was bought on my Dad's card and a spouse-of-business card is not a business card, but I'm assuming it is)
    I'm not insiniuating, I'm simply asking the question to find out if the washing machine was purchased on behalf of a business or private consumer. I'm guessing from what you're saying that it was bought using private funds and is not a business asset, therefore SOGA does apply.

    The term "reasonable period" just applys to rejecting an item for a full refund, which is usually but not always a short period after purchase. You still have the right for an item to conform to contract, eg, last a reasonable time, for which you can expect a remedy of repair, replacement or partial refund. You will, however, have to prove that it is an inherent manufacturing fault.
  • Update: My Dad has called Makro, who just fobbed him off to Whirlpool. Whirlpool said they only did one year warranties (fair enough), and my dad (completely forgetting everything I've taught him) has asked for Whirlpool's complaints department *Roll eyes emoticon goes here*. He thinks he "might as well" try that, so I'll let him do that while I write a letter to Makro myself.

    I've done a bit more reading - there have been a couple of relevant threads on MSE (the Dell thread and one other), and it seems like if you accept terms and conditions saying you're buying for a business, then the non-business parts of SOGA don't apply. On the Dell thread there were debates as to how clear it was, but I think we can safely assume Makro's terms are pretty solid, so again unless my Dad's card had different terms (since it isn't his business), no non-business SOGA rights apply.
  • UK2010
    UK2010 Posts: 373 Forumite
    Be careful what you put in the letter. I recently got a Makro card myself. They are very clear it's for business use only. Your mum may well get the card taken off her if you say it's for personal use and try to get the same rights.
  • DrScotsman
    DrScotsman Posts: 996 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    edited 7 February 2010 at 12:13PM
    O_o really? I understand they can tell my mum where she can go if we try to get them to be pay up for something they're not responsible for, but they can just take the card off her if she's bought something for non-business use?

    Actually I just remembered that my mum used to have a Makro card without being a business, because her mother-in-law was a member (and she was nominated or something like that). It seems that either Makro membership is actually quite lax or the system is easily abused, as she was NOTHING to do with that business... EDIT: Reading Makro's T&C at the moment, I'm going to guess the latter

    Y'know this is bothering me a little bit. I understand why businesses don't get some SOGA rights, like the 6 month reverse burden of proof thing, but why does a business not seem to have much recourse for faulty goods?
  • neilmcl
    neilmcl Posts: 19,460 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    DrScotsman wrote: »
    I've done a bit more reading - there have been a couple of relevant threads on MSE (the Dell thread and one other), and it seems like if you accept terms and conditions saying you're buying for a business, then the non-business parts of SOGA don't apply.
    I don't think that's correct. It doesn't matter what terms & conditions you agree to you are not a business, that is a fact in law, there's nothing that can change that. Yes, Makro could sue you for misrepresenting yourself (if that's at all possible) but that still doesn't effect your statutory consumer rights.
  • neilmcl
    neilmcl Posts: 19,460 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    DrScotsman wrote: »
    Y'know this is bothering me a little bit. I understand why businesses don't get some SOGA rights, like the 6 month reverse burden of proof thing, but why does a business not seem to have much recourse for faulty goods?
    Business do not get any recourse under the SOGA, but they will have recourse though. They just have to go the route everyone had to do prior to the SOGA and that is sue for damages/loss, breach of contract etc.
  • Equaliser123
    Equaliser123 Posts: 3,404 Forumite
    Pretty much what neilmcl says although to be 100% correct, SOGA DOES apply to business to business transactions although the implied warranties (s.13, s.14(2) and 14(4)) can be contracted out of.
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