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Really confusing situation: any maths brains out there?
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[Deleted User]
Posts: 0 Newbie

Hi,
I've got another thread about this, but in the wrong place, so posting here in the hope someone can help me.
The facts are listed below, but I'm looking for a maths whizz who can work out a solution!
In April 2005 I took out a graduate loan @ 7.9% over X years
Unbeknown to me, Barclays added PPI to the loan upfront.
In January 2006, I discovered this, so visited the branch nearest my work to ask for this to be removed.
Barclays DID remove the PPI, but not until March 2006 (2 months later) - it took this long because their staff were used to dealing with commercial enquiries, and none of them had had to deal with a graduate loan before.
I complained that it took so long to remove, and got a refund of PPI for the 2 months (Jan - March 06).
Now, in order to remove the PPI, Barclays had to take out a new loan and use this to repay the old one.
Are you with me so far? All fine and dandy.
Earlier this year, I came across MSE and found out that I could reclaim my PPI as I believe it had been mis-sold to me (upfront policy, plus I was an unemployed student when it was added on - without my knowledge).
So, I wrote to Barclays asking them for a full refund of PPI. I also asked them to explain what had happened to my loan when I went into the branch to have the PPI removed, as something (gut instinct) didn't seem right.
Now here's the important bit:
It is my understanding - correct me if I'm wrong - that if you ask your bank to remove PPI, then it is under an obligation not to place you in a worse position after the PPI has been removed, than you were in before. So, for example, it can't alter the interest rate or terms to your disadvantage.
Having received a letter back from Barclays, I have discovered that when the new loan (without PPI) was taken out to replace the loan (with PPI) that the loan amount was identical - £10,000 - even though I had already made 7 payments of £242 per month towards the loan.
Or, in other words, I took out a loan for £10k. I was mis-sold PPI on top. I made 7 payments of £242 towards the loan, but when I went into the branch and asked for the PPI to be removed they did this, but the loan balance reverted back to £10k.
So, £1,694 worth of payments have disappeared into thin air.
I'm now pursuing this complaint via Barclays and - shortly - the FOS, as Barclays can't seem to understand my complaint and don't really get what the issue is.
What I'm wondering is if anyone here is mathematically savvy enough to help me work out what my loan balance SHOULD be - or, rather - how much this error by Barclays has cost me?
It is actually going to be more than £1,694, because I've paid additional interest on a phantom balance that shouldn't have existed - if that makes sense?
Could anyone please help?
April 2005: Loan taken out. Balance = £10k + £1,789 PPI added upfront
Payment holiday from April - September, when first payment of £242 comes out.
From then on, regular monthly payments of £242, until my new loan took effect in May 2006.
Up to this point I had made total payments of £1,694.
The new loan balance was for £10k.
From then, monthly repayments of £154.50 took effect (Barclays altered the length over which I'd be making repayments, too).
What should my loan balance be today if Barclays hadn't added PPI?
I've got another thread about this, but in the wrong place, so posting here in the hope someone can help me.
The facts are listed below, but I'm looking for a maths whizz who can work out a solution!
In April 2005 I took out a graduate loan @ 7.9% over X years
Unbeknown to me, Barclays added PPI to the loan upfront.
In January 2006, I discovered this, so visited the branch nearest my work to ask for this to be removed.
Barclays DID remove the PPI, but not until March 2006 (2 months later) - it took this long because their staff were used to dealing with commercial enquiries, and none of them had had to deal with a graduate loan before.
I complained that it took so long to remove, and got a refund of PPI for the 2 months (Jan - March 06).
Now, in order to remove the PPI, Barclays had to take out a new loan and use this to repay the old one.
Are you with me so far? All fine and dandy.
Earlier this year, I came across MSE and found out that I could reclaim my PPI as I believe it had been mis-sold to me (upfront policy, plus I was an unemployed student when it was added on - without my knowledge).
So, I wrote to Barclays asking them for a full refund of PPI. I also asked them to explain what had happened to my loan when I went into the branch to have the PPI removed, as something (gut instinct) didn't seem right.
Now here's the important bit:
It is my understanding - correct me if I'm wrong - that if you ask your bank to remove PPI, then it is under an obligation not to place you in a worse position after the PPI has been removed, than you were in before. So, for example, it can't alter the interest rate or terms to your disadvantage.
Having received a letter back from Barclays, I have discovered that when the new loan (without PPI) was taken out to replace the loan (with PPI) that the loan amount was identical - £10,000 - even though I had already made 7 payments of £242 per month towards the loan.
Or, in other words, I took out a loan for £10k. I was mis-sold PPI on top. I made 7 payments of £242 towards the loan, but when I went into the branch and asked for the PPI to be removed they did this, but the loan balance reverted back to £10k.
So, £1,694 worth of payments have disappeared into thin air.
I'm now pursuing this complaint via Barclays and - shortly - the FOS, as Barclays can't seem to understand my complaint and don't really get what the issue is.
What I'm wondering is if anyone here is mathematically savvy enough to help me work out what my loan balance SHOULD be - or, rather - how much this error by Barclays has cost me?
It is actually going to be more than £1,694, because I've paid additional interest on a phantom balance that shouldn't have existed - if that makes sense?
Could anyone please help?
April 2005: Loan taken out. Balance = £10k + £1,789 PPI added upfront
Payment holiday from April - September, when first payment of £242 comes out.
From then on, regular monthly payments of £242, until my new loan took effect in May 2006.
Up to this point I had made total payments of £1,694.
The new loan balance was for £10k.
From then, monthly repayments of £154.50 took effect (Barclays altered the length over which I'd be making repayments, too).
What should my loan balance be today if Barclays hadn't added PPI?
0
Comments
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By the way, the key issue here is that just because I've asked for PPI to be removed, I'm now in a worse situation than I was before.
Not only has £1694 of payments disappeared into thin air, but I've also reverted back to my full balance of £10k which means more of my monthly payment is going towards interest each month, rather than the capital.
Once that's taken into account, I believe I have lost more than £1694 because I should have reduced the capital sum by more than I have so far.0 -
what was the original period of the loan?
what is the new period of the loan?
when you say they 'removed' the PPI what does that mean exactly...0 -
I think I've done the maths, but it's a bit sketchy so would appreciate it if someone could check:
£10k @ £254.10 monthly (with 3 month payment window) @ 7.9% over 5 years should take me down to £8,273 after 1 year (starting 1st May 2005 - ending 1st May 2006).
Then £8,273 @ £154.50 monthly (no payment window) @ 7.9% over 7 years should take me down to a balance of £3,457.51 today.
Currently, my balance is £5,782, so I think that because of Barclays error I am £2,324 down.0 -
The original loan was 10k @ 7.9% over 5 years.
The new loan was 10k @7.9% over 7 years
What happened was:
£1.7k (approx) of PPI was added to the original loan, upfront.
In Jan 06 I went into the branch asking for it to be removed: I didn't need it (but note that I wasn't claiming it was mis-sold - I was just telling that 'I don't want this and don't need it'). So, the branch closed the loan and opened a new one for £10k to replace the old one.
According to their letter, "a refund of £1,196.06 was made for the Insurance involved with your original loan to your current account on 2 May 2006".
As far as I'm aware, I did not receive this refund; nor should I have done.
I think what they mean is that the original loan was for £10k + PPI. The new loan was for £10k, so there was a shortfall. A 'refund' was made for the shortfall to my current account, so I never saw that PPI.
Does that make sense?
So, here's what I think happened financially:
£10k + £1.7k (PPI) = £11,700, all incurring interest
7 payments of £242 go towards this balance
I visit the branch and tell them I don't want/need the PPI, so they close this loan and open a new one, for £10k
So, after 7 payments of £242 I'm back to the position I should have been in a year previously, but with none of the capital paid off.0 -
what does £1,96.06 mean?0
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Sorry, typo. I meant £1,196.06.0
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I'm confused too
in april 05 you borrowed
10,000 plus PPI
1,789
Ist payment was september so presumably they added interest for 4 month of about £310
so by september your debt was 12,099 approx
you then paid 242 for 7 months
normally this would have reduced the debt to 10,960
they gave you a refund of 1196.06
so balance after 7 payments and your refund would be about £9,790
so yes you do seem to be a litttle out0 -
I have spoken to a lawyer who does think I have a valid claim here, but not sure how to proceed.
I don't seem to be getting anywhere with Barclays or FOS - and FOS now saying that there are very long delays (6 months) in investigating cases, so not sure what to do next. I spoke with one of these no-win no-fee firms and although I'm normally hugely against them, this is quite a complex case and I think I might end up with a faster resolution using them.
Any advice welcome.0 -
I'm confused too
in april 05 you borrowed
10,000 plus PPI
1,789
Ist payment was september so presumably they added interest for 4 month of about £310
so by september your debt was 12,099 approx
you then paid 242 for 7 months
normally this would have reduced the debt to 10,960
they gave you a refund of 1196.06
so you debt is now
Hi Clapton - here's the ledger they provided:
20 May 05: Account opened. Opening balance = 10,000dr
20 May 05: PPP (£1,786) added. Balance = 11,786dr
From May - Sept there was a payment holiday
20 Jun 05: Interest added. Balance 11,864.52 dr
26 Sept 05: Interest added. Balance 12,112.21 dr
In September, payments (£242.10) started taking effect:
30 Sept 05: Balance 11,870.11 dr
31 Oct 05: Balance 11,628.01 dr
30 Nov 05: Balance 11,385.91 dr
19 Dec 05: Interest added. Balance 11,595.00 dr
30 Dec 05: Balance 11,352.90 dr
30 Jan 06: Balance 11,110.80 dr
1 Mar 06: Balance 10,868.70 dr
20 Mar 06: Interest added. Balance 11,085.83 dr
30 Mar 06: Balance 10,843.73 dr
It's at this point I went into the branch to remove the PPI. Here's what happened to the loan (according to the ledger):
28 Apr 06: Credit of 10,000 made to the loan. Balance = 843.73 dr
2 May 06: Credit of 935.05 made to the loan. Balance = 91.32
This 91.32 was the interest from March to May, so was removed from the account (as shouldn't have been applied, it seems), so:
3 May 06: Balance = zero and account closed0 -
On 3rd May, new loan of £10k takes effect.0
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