Opinions on my legal claim?

stugib · 6 February 2006 at 10:24PM

Hi MSEers,

I'd like your objective opinions to try and assess my chances of winning a small claims court case before I issue proceedings.

I ordered a 'custom-made' PDA case, which was described on their website as:

"What's the point of spending extra to get the smallest technology on the market if you're going to put it in a bulky case when you go 'mobile'? Wouldn't it be great if you could find a robust and stylish case that gave you peace of mind without adding unnecessary size to your device? You've come to the right place! Our ultra-slim cases are tailor-made: each case is a perfect fit because it's made to match the exact dimensions of your device."

"PDAs are supposed to be sleek and pocketable. That's why we custom make each of our pouches so they fit the exact dimensions of your PDA. Made out of durable and flexible neoprene, our pouches fit each device tightly whilst protecting against bumps, scratches and water splashes."

I have highlighted the key phrases. Nowhere is it described as 'padded'.

What I got was this (just 5 photos

):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/71897475@N00/tags/palmcase/show/

I'm pretty confident I'd win a small claims court case, but I recognise I'm claiming on something that could be subjective (how slim is slim?), but the fact there's obvious clearance around the sides of the PDA while in the case and the overall bulk added make me think I'd have a good case (excusing the pun). My PDA is 121x78x15mm, the case has internal measurements of 121x90x25mm and overall outside measurements of 125x100x35mm (51mm deep including the flap).

That's where you come in! Would you be happy that what you received fulfilled the description?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to look at the photos and give me your opinion.

Stuart

Altarf · 6 February 2006 at 11:10PM

"without adding unnecessary size" - Could they make it any smaller and it still provide adequate protection for the PDA?

"ultra-slim" - For the protection it provides.

"tailor-made" - Well it is designed to fit your PDA isn't it.

"match the exact dimensions"
"perfect fit"
"fit the exact dimensions"
"fit each device tightly"
- All say the same and your PDA does seem to fit *inside* it fairly snuggly.

Wouldn't it be simpler to send it back under the distance selling regulations than sue someone for 20 quid? The case does look a bit rubbish, but I wouldn't bet on a win in court.

stugib · 7 February 2006 at 10:20AM

Altarf wrote:

Wouldn't it be simpler to send it back under the distance selling regulations than sue someone for 20 quid? The case does look a bit rubbish, but I wouldn't bet on a win in court.

Thanks for your feedback. Unfortunately because they say it's custom-made (trading standards doubt that the customisation available makes it personalised under the DSR) they only give 50% refunds once it's made.

How did you know it was £20 BTW? It's not the amount involved, more the fact they think they're above the law.

Stuart

smcaul · 7 February 2006 at 12:54PM

That is complete junk, my aluminuim PDA case is much smaller then that, and the case it came with is also much smaller. There is nothing custom about that - it looks more like one size fits all, as for £20, my case cost £11, I would be doing the same as you and taking them to the small claims court - I hope they live far enough away that it costs them a small fortune to attend. Good luck

RightRevBod · 7 February 2006 at 1:03PM

Looking at the pictures, I would say that it is not fit for purpose and not as described.

I very much doubt that this would actually get to court. I am sure that they would settle once you issued proceedings. However, if it did go all the way, I believe that you would win.

-=Mr-J=- · 7 February 2006 at 2:08PM

Your Palm looks to be the TX.
Given the TX has the same dims as the T5, they can hardly class it as custom made.
They will have merely picked up a T5 case.

(Assuming I have got the correct website/company)
I would report them to TS as I think their T&Cs would be on ropey grounds regarding cancellation anyway.

The homepage correctly refers to 'Tailor Made', i.e. they looked at the various models and (supposedly) produced/sized their pouches to suit.
The product page lists models they were specifically 'tailor made' for, with a catch-all to say that any unlisted model can be catered for with a 'custom-made' pouch - reference to stock is also made here.

Their T&Cs on cancellation say As we custom make every case to your specification...
Their T&Cs do not allow for cancellation of an order that is from stock, they declare all cases to be 'custom-made'.

Thats misrepresentation and unfair contract terms in my book.

Despite all that, it just looks rubbish as well.

stugib · 7 February 2006 at 2:35PM

-=Mr-J=- wrote:

Your Palm looks to be the TX.
Given the TX has the same dims as the T5, they can hardly class it as custom made.
They will have merely picked up a T5 case.

Correct - a TX! The customisation they offer is whether to have a long/short flap, pocket/belt loop/neither on the back, and colour. I think the fact that this only narrows it down to ~6 options/colour per device is why TS agrees with you that this probably doesn't qualify as custom-made in the DSR terms. The fact you could fit a lot bulkier PDAs in this case I think also weakens their case that it is truly custom-made per order.

-=Mr-J=- wrote:

(Assuming I have got the correct website/company)
I would report them to TS as I think their T&Cs would be on ropey grounds regarding cancellation anyway.

The homepage correctly refers to 'Tailor Made', i.e. they looked at the various models and (supposedly) produced/sized their pouches to suit.
The product page lists models they were specifically 'tailor made' for, with a catch-all to say that any unlisted model can be catered for with a 'custom-made' pouch - reference to stock is also made here.

Their T&Cs on cancellation say As we custom make every case to your specification...
Their T&Cs do not allow for cancellation of an order that is from stock, they declare all cases to be 'custom-made'.

Thats misrepresentation and unfair contract terms in my book.

Very well spotted Mr-J! And thanks for taking the trouble to look up who I was talking about. I think that, together with using this loophole to withold refunds and delay deliveries, plus their misrepresentation and avoidance of the SOGA should give TS something to get their teeth into. If I could give you double-thanks I would!!

-=Mr-J=- wrote:

Despite all that, it just looks rubbish as well.

stugib · 7 February 2006 at 2:43PM

smcaul wrote:

That is complete junk, my aluminuim PDA case is much smaller then that, and the case it came with is also much smaller. There is nothing custom about that - it looks more like one size fits all, as for £20, my case cost £11, I would be doing the same as you and taking them to the small claims court - I hope they live far enough away that it costs them a small fortune to attend. Good luck

Thanks. If it did get that far I think I'd also use examples of other cases that truly do fit the intended device - I also had an aluminium one for my previous PDA which was perfectly fitting. Incidentally, I don't know about yours, but my aluminium case was neoprene lined, the same material this case is supposed to be made of, and defined as "a synthetic rubber...used especially for special-purpose clothing (as gloves and wet suits)", which together with their claims led me to believe I'd be getting something ultra-thin. Obviously I haven't got the case any more to do any tests on it but it didn't feel rubbery, more nylon/cloth, which would mean they were bang-to-rights as far as middescribing it goes.

Stuart

stugib · 7 February 2006 at 2:55PM

-=Mr-J=- wrote:

I think their T&Cs would be on ropey grounds regarding cancellation anyway.

Mr J, I can't thank you enough for spotting this - you're right, I've just double checked all the T&Cs pages. They do say in several places that all are custom-made, and there is no way to order a 'standard' case - to order a case you type in your device name and then get given a page where you have to choose your options.

Altarf · 8 February 2006 at 7:04PM

stugib wrote:

How did you know it was £20 BTW?

That was the price on their website.

Their 'About' page also says "all our pouches carry a 100% satisfaction guarantee.".

Personally I would return it under the DSR and then if they wouldn't refund, sue on under (especially that if they tried to argue that a standard case of the shelf was a 'custom' case), rather than debate the description.

hollydays · 15 February 2006 at 1:30PM

good luck let us know how you got on.

Opinions on my legal claim?

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