HEATING ADVICE before buying house....

covbaldy · 4 January 2006 at 4:01PM

Right, this is the deal, we're looking at 3 bed semi thats in need of modernisation. New kitchen bathroom and heating system by the looks of it.
I know roughly how much a kitchen and bathroom will cost but it is the heating that is of concern.
The bolier looks old, its a floor standing Stelrad group/Ideal Mexico. I think the stelrad group might refer to the rads? As they are the older fashion but alot nicer looking ones. I have a link to some pics:

http://photobucket.com/albums/b378/covbaldy/Butt%20Lane/

pics in question that should help are: butt604, butt 576, butt 577 and but578.

There all big and wide looking pipes. There is also a water tank in the bathroom and what looks like alot of pipes in the loft.
i guess what we need to know is whst the best way to replce this system (and prices)? But we'd like to keep the rads, pipework is on walls etc so this will have to be built into price of putting under floorboards (I guess?)

ANY IDEAS...? HELP!!!!

Thanks
Alan

plumb1_2 · 4 January 2006 at 4:52PM

What you have there is a old traditional one pipe system, feed from 1" ring, with 3/4" feeds to the rads ,Steel pipework, with a cylinder in the cuboard.
A very ineffiant system.

if keeping the old cast-iron rads, not a good idea imo, they take a long time to warm up, and you would have to have your heating on early, but once they do get warm, they will continue to keep the room heated longer.
But you will find you heating bill will be more. And they should to be piped up in 22mm pipe, instead of 15mm/10mm adding more cost.
I suspect when the system was first installed it would have been coal-fired boiler, and changed over to gas.
Better to take out all of it and start again, with new, there is always the time you come to sell. As Mr Grossman would say,Who would have radiators in a house like this.;)

2 opitions

1st, if you are redisigning the kitchen, you can put a wall mounted bioler on the external wall, replace all pipework, rads(with stats) and new cylinder, making it a fully pumpted sytem.

2nd, as above, but a Combi boiler, or you could put the combi in the airing-cuboard.

Cost approx 3.5k, but to save some money,inform the choosen installers, that you will be removing all the old rads and steel pipework, and just get them to disconnect the gas and electrics, a few days before they intend to start.

covbaldy · 4 January 2006 at 5:25PM

plumb1 thanks for the help. I thought it may have been a very old system.

We'll need to add one more rad so I think we would just have a combi boiler - any recomendations? Standard 3 bed semi house.
The kitchen will have to be redesigned anyhow so we can place it onto an outside wall no problem.

Are the old rads worth anything if sold?

No problem in removing the old pipework either...

I have seen some people have pipework on the outside of the house is this to save money or is there another reason for this? I guess taking the floorboards up makes it a lot longer job?

We were thinking about having sanded floors! Anything I can do to keep the damage down?

We want to make the bathroom bigger so we don't need the water tank in the bathroom...

Thanks again

Alan

moneysavingplumber · 5 January 2006 at 12:55AM

covbaldy wrote:

No problem in removing the old pipework either...

:snow_laug I would suggest you get yourself a mini-grinder for cutting the galvanised pipework above the floor (making sure all flammables are removed or protected and you are well goggled and masked up as sparks will fly!) and a good reciprocating saw for under floors where the sparks would be too risky. Otherwise the cutting will take an age with hacksaws and elbow grease.

Some reclamation yards might be interested in the rads, but so many lighter steel ones are available now that are more efficient there isn't as much call for the older ones, they have to be pressure tested and blasted and re-dipped as well.

I wouldn't recommend having any heating or domestic pipe work on the outside of the house. The only way to minimise the damage to the floorboards while lifting is to be very careful, and to very carefully remove any tongues with a circular saw prior to lifting.

My personal recommendations if you choose to have a combi would be Alpha CD32C or Vaillant Ecotec Plus 831, Worcester are generally very good but I personally don't like the fact their main heat exchanger is aluminium.

covbaldy · 5 January 2006 at 11:25AM

Thanks for the info there.
I have an angle grinder so thats good, I'm sure I can hire a reciprocating saw for a day or so, although I don't think there is anything thats underfloor at the moment?

The boilers you recomend how much do they cost? And is there a good place to find them discounted?

Thanks
Alan

moneysavingplumber · 5 January 2006 at 7:42PM

At last look the prices were £902.99 for the Vaillant (inc. VAT and standard flue) and £870.68 for the Alpha as above. The Alpha has a 32KW output (13 ltrs/min flow rate) as opposed to the Vaillant at 24KW. The Alpha CD24C (24KW version) at last look was £803.22 including VAT and standard flue. I personally use PTS but lots of people on this forum will be able to point you to online places that will be pretty competitive. Just make sure you have it specified correctly according to your needs before you buy, if you intend not to have the fitter supply it for you.

robowen · 5 January 2006 at 11:30PM

I'm willing to wager that the plumber who installed this, was working in a school near the time. :rolleyes:
Must of had a few bits left over from the school job :think:

rob:rotfl: :beer:

covbaldy · 6 January 2006 at 5:29PM

I take it that there powerful enough to heat 6 rads and a towel rail for the bathroom?
Can I get dimensions from the manufacturers website?
We will be removing the tanks and replacing with a combi - I have heard mention of a condensing boiler whats the difference?
Also can anyone recommend a good electric/power shower?

moneysavingplumber · 6 January 2006 at 7:00PM

covbaldy wrote:

I take it that there powerful enough to heat 6 rads and a towel rail for the bathroom?
Can I get dimensions from the manufacturers website?
We will be removing the tanks and replacing with a combi - I have heard mention of a condensing boiler whats the difference?
Also can anyone recommend a good electric/power shower?

If you're in England or Wales you will have to have a condensing combi. They use what used to be considered latent heat from the flue gas so they become more efficient, and a drain is required to discharge the resulting condensate.

The heating side will be no problem for a combi. There is a technical page at the Alpha site https://www.alpha-boilers.com and last time I went to the Vaillant site I had to register to get access to technical PDF downloads, can't remember the url though!

kje_2 · 7 January 2006 at 10:35PM

Something that you should also consider is the gas piping from the meter to the boiler. For a combi this can be 22mm to within 1 metre of the boiler and then 15mm for the final connection.

Nile · 7 January 2006 at 10:42PM

Hello kje

Welcome to the MSE site:wave:

Nile

HEATING ADVICE before buying house....

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