Any advice would be welcome.

headoutofsand · 23 November 2008 at 2:44PM

Hi there. Firstly let me say this forum and those that contribute has been of great help in my decision to get my head together.

My predicament is as follows.

My business has gone down the pan. I am a sole trader driving instructor/Driving instructor trainer of seven years, and now am facing ruin.

I have debts as follows. All unsecured

Credit cards £5000 app
Overdraft maxed out £7500
My Mother £6000 app
Business loan £20,000 (around £13,000 owing)
Assets car £3500 app (owned outright)
All the above loans, plus electric,cc payments, phone bills,etc have been coming out of the overdraft. I have audited accounts for last year.

Income at the moment WFTC £125 a week
Income from work zero.

I have a council house and the rent is up to date.

I need advice on what to do. I cannot get through to the Business debt line.

Should I go and sign on? I cannot keep taking money from the WFTC as I am not earning.

Any advice would be most welcome.
Kind regards Headoutofsand

fiveyearplan · 23 November 2008 at 2:51PM

headoutofsand wrote: »

Hi there. Firstly let me say this forum and those that contribute has been of great help in my decision to get my head together.

My predicament is as follows.

My business has gone down the pan. I am a sole trader driving instructor/Driving instructor trainer of seven years, and now am facing ruin.

I have debts as follows. All unsecured

Credit cards £5000 app
Overdraft maxed out £7500
My Mother £6000 app if you plan on still paying your mother I would leave this out of the bankruptcy forms as she will be looked at as a creditor and you wouldn't be able to pay her back.
Business loan £20,000 (around £13,000 owing)
Assets car £3500 app (owned outright)
All the above loans, plus electric,cc payments, phone bills,etc have been coming out of the overdraft. I have audited accounts for last year.

Income at the moment WFTC £125 a week
Income from work zero.

I have a council house and the rent is up to date. Good, try and keep on top of this and utility bills. Can you claim housing benefit & council tax benefit?

I need advice on what to do. I cannot get through to the Business debt line.

Should I go and sign on? I cannot keep taking money from the WFTC as I am not earning. I would think this is a must for the time being so you can also get all the benefits you are allowed to survive.

Any advice would be most welcome.
Kind regards Headoutofsand

Hi and welcome headoutofsand and congratulations for taking your head out of the sand and dealing with your financial problems. I have commented in red above. I would get benefits sorted out asap and then start looking around for a new job. At least you'll know the rent etc will be paid however you'll still need to find the money for utilities. Pay these before you pay anything else. IF you are intending to go bankrupt then don't pay anything to your creditor as you need to sort priority bills first and any payment made to creditors at this stage is a waste of your money. Keep trying business debt line also try National Debtline and CAB.

maxmycardagain · 23 November 2008 at 2:54PM

Hi there HOOS, welcome to the last chance saloon, have a drink...

First you must get proper help and advice, you could possibly be refused bankruptcy if you dont!

CAB, National Debtline, CCCS are the ones to approach

Im suprised a driving instructor isnt getting work, i live in a town with a DSA test centre and the streets are crawling with L plates!

however...

Credit cards £5000 app
Overdraft maxed out £7500
My Mother £6000 app
Business loan £20,000 (around £13,000 owing)
Assets car £3500 app (owned outright)
All the above loans, plus electric,cc payments, phone bills,etc have been coming out of the overdraft. I have audited accounts for last year.

Income at the moment WFTC £125 a week
Income from work zero.

I have a council house and the rent is up to date.

I need advice on what to do. I cannot get through to the Business debt line.

Should I go and sign on? I cannot keep taking money from the WFTC as I am not earning.

If you feel its best to shut up shop then only you can make that decision and if its right for you you should do it.

All the debts you have listed will be included except, of course, the one from mum, who i suspect, you will find a way to repay.

if you went BR and traded on you woul dkeep the car as a "tool of the trade", otherwise (subject to valuation and a case for keeping it) the OR may take it.

as for signing on, self employed nat ins contributions may not get you benefits, but its worth a try.

chin up

fiveyearplan · 23 November 2008 at 4:12PM

Hi Max (former Bankrupt!). Glad to see you're still around speaking to us BRs.

headoutofsand · 23 November 2008 at 4:22PM

Thankyou. I have paid my Ni contributions, not higher level though just what is needed to pay.

I owe the tax man zero.

My Mothers loan was included in the accounts as a loan for the business!

I have registered on the insolvency site and have my login key.

Should I start filling the forms in, or wait till I have spoken to cab or whoever?

As for the question on "Loads of work " I have none. Partly my fault, because of venturing into other things and a bad business deal.

The good news is I have an interview for a driver training officer job, with a large city council on Thursday, the bad news is, when will they let me know if I have been accepted.

If I decide with professional guidance ( or without) to go BR, could I (dare I say it) flog the motor and use the money to live on until the day, or would that be a BIG no no? The Panda is very cheap to run and it would be a shame to see it go.

I have another car worth ? which is a NOVA yep that's right a Nova, however it does need a little work doing to it.

I was going to sell the car(Panda) put the money back into the overdraft join the AA and try that, but I may be "jumping out of the frying pan into the fire"

It may be the case that a change is/was needed, and in reality I have lost interest in learners. I may have been partly to blame for my mess in being not proactive enough. I did a fair amount of work in the commercial sector assessing, coaching company car drivers, which was going well until the banks/economy hit the fan.

Usually at this time of year I would be busy training van drives for Waitrose/Ocado for the Christmas rush, this year that has not happened. During my time in the commercial sector I let most of the Learners go to concentrate on the other stuff(Big mistake there then)

I do feel that my time with learners must end and this mess is probably my destiny. I tend to have a ten year cycle, where one thing ends another starts. However, bankrupt was not in the plan.

Kind regards Headfurtheroutofsand.

fiveyearplan · 23 November 2008 at 6:54PM

headoutofsand wrote: »

Thankyou. I have paid my Ni contributions, not higher level though just what is needed to pay.

I owe the tax man zero.

My Mothers loan was included in the accounts as a loan for the business! I suppose you should put it into the BR then and pay her if you want to but it isn't allowed for you to pay her as that would be favouring one creditor over another. I realise that you probably want to pay her though so just keep it quiet!

I have registered on the insolvency site and have my login key.

Should I start filling the forms in, or wait till I have spoken to cab or whoever? I would print them out and fill them in by hand then either leave it like that or enter it all online. They do take some time to fill in and I wasn't comfortable leaving all that information online in case I pressed 'submit' by accident as you can't go back to them then.

As for the question on "Loads of work " I have none. Partly my fault, because of venturing into other things and a bad business deal.

The good news is I have an interview for a driver training officer job, with a large city council on Thursday, the bad news is, when will they let me know if I have been accepted. Good Luck!!!

If I decide with professional guidance ( or without - you may as well at least phone them then you can honestly say you have taken advice if you are asked) to go BR, could I (dare I say it) flog the motor and use the money to live on until the day, or would that be a BIG no no? The Panda is very cheap to run and it would be a shame to see it go.

I have another car worth ? which is a NOVA yep that's right a Nova, however it does need a little work doing to it.

I was going to sell the car(Panda) put the money back into the overdraft join the AA and try that, but I may be "jumping out of the frying pan into the fire"
I wouldn't bother to pay any of the overdraft as you will need that money for emergencies once BR. IT would just be a waste of your money! I also wouldn't sell unless you need the money for BR fees or you get desparate and need the money for living expenses.
It may be the case that a change is/was needed, and in reality I have lost interest in learners. I may have been partly to blame for my mess in being not proactive enough. I did a fair amount of work in the commercial sector assessing, coaching company car drivers, which was going well until the banks/economy hit the fan. Maybe you're right and a change will do you good.

Usually at this time of year I would be busy training van drives for Waitrose/Ocado for the Christmas rush, this year that has not happened. During my time in the commercial sector I let most of the Learners go to concentrate on the other stuff(Big mistake there then)

I do feel that my time with learners must end and this mess is probably my destiny. I tend to have a ten year cycle, where one thing ends another starts. However, bankrupt was not in the plan.

Kind regards Headfurtheroutofsand.

See my comments in red above.

deedee_3 · 23 November 2008 at 7:26PM

Also check out https://www.entitledto.co.uk for a look at what benefits you might be able to claim.

headoutofsand · 23 November 2008 at 7:38PM

I was going to sell the car(Panda) put the money back into the overdraft join the AA and try that, but I may be "jumping out of the frying pan into the fire"
I wouldn't bother to pay any of the overdraft as you will need that money for emergencies once BR. IT would just be a waste of your money! I also wouldn't sell unless you need the money for BR fees or you get desparate and need the money for living expenses.

Hi Fiveyear. Is it possible to sell the car( school car business asset) use the cash to sort the Nova out?

Or buy another car for say £2000 and put the remainder towards BR fees and living exspenses?

Would the OR think that I had acted irresponsibly, if I took the above course of action.

I would in any case have to cash the cheque from the dealer into another names account, as the bank would swallow the cash for the overdraft.
Would this be then fraudulent? Considering the car belongs to the business as such, it may be.

The price I would get would be less than the market value as the school car is just that, so although the Panda in reality may be worth £4250 say, because it is a "learner car" then it's worth is less, possibly lot's less.

Believe you me I have seriously been considering flogging it.
but is it legal for me to do so, considering what I may do next? (proposed BR)

deedee_3 · 23 November 2008 at 7:45PM

I would sell the car, get a cheaper one of around £1000, put £495 by for bankrupycy fees and use the rest for living expenses ie: rent, food because you have no income at the moment.

maxmycardagain · 23 November 2008 at 7:50PM

Should I start filling the forms in, or wait till I have spoken to cab or whoever? I would print them out and fill them in by hand then either leave it like that or enter it all online. They do take some time to fill in and I wasn't comfortable leaving all that information online in case I pressed 'submit' by accident as you can't go back to them then.

id say do the online forms, the "submit" button is very very very the last thing and its not likely to let you submit unless you want to

it has checkouts per section you have to verify before submitting.

maxmycardagain · 23 November 2008 at 7:51PM

fiveyearplan wrote: »

Hi Max (former Bankrupt!). Glad to see you're still around speaking to us BRs.

i dont mind slumming it a bit

i remember when i was a bankrupt.....

Any advice would be welcome.

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