New Boiler Advice (merged)

This is a question for moneysavingplumber - please could you pm me the reply

We are in the midst of getting quotes for a replacement boiler next year. I know the regulations changed in April this year, and as a result we are having to pay more. A work colleague has just mentioned that when she had a plumber round the other day, he mentioned that there were more changes due in April next year, which could result in a 40% increase. Do you know anything about this?

Thanks

dollywops

Ah, the plumber's mantra: NEW BOILER NEW BOILER NEW BOILER

I'm sorry folks, but I've got to have a rant about this.

I'm saying this as a property investor/landlord, but it could well apply to anyone. A couple of weeks ago one of my tenants rang up to say her boiler had packed up. No hot water or heating. It's a Potterton Lynx, and about 18 years old, so yes, I'm the first to agree, it's getting on. I have a service contract for it with 'good old British Gas', and called them out. As I expected, back came the usual plumber's mantra: NEW BOILER. Not only that, but the plumber told my tenant that they'd stopped making parts for that boiler in 1991. My tenant's a lawyer, and doesn't tend to get those kinds of facts wrong. I wondered why on earth they'd let me pay for a service contract each year for the past 14 years, if they couldn't get any parts for it, but I'll let that one go ...

Now please don't think I'm a tightfisted landlord. I treat my tenants well, and we have a very friendly relationship as a result. But due to recent legislation, any new boilers have to be condensing boilers, and they have a bad reputation for teething problems at the moment, so I'd rather wait for the faults to be ironed out and then start replacing boilers in, say, a couple of years when the new type is more reliable.

I started to contact other plumbers: they all said the same: NEW BOILER NEW BOILER ... and what's more, it's now NEW CONDENSING BOILER, MINIMUM £2,000, because of all the extra work to convert the existing pipework etc to accommodate the new type of boiler. When I heard this from about six different plumbers, I was about to give in, but then I remembered that I'm a member of this great moneysaving site, and what's more, I'm a personal finance author myself (I've written books such as Get Out Of Debt Forever), and would have felt ashamed not to have made a more determined effort, when I'm always dishing out that kind of advice in my books to readers. So I went back to basics: I didn't want a condensing boiler, but was it really necessary to lose my old one? Perhaps there might be a way to get the part needed, even if it was discontinued 14 years ago.

To cut this rant short (or I'll keep on steaming about it) I did some research, and found out that THE SPARE PART HAD NOT BEEN DISCONTINUED AT ALL. BRITISH GAS HAD LIED. BRITISH GAS HAVE JUST STOPPED OBTAINING THEM, THAT'S ALL. What's more, I found AN HONEST PLUMBER who was happy to obtain and fit it. The boiler is now working perfectly. My tenant is very happy. The bill for the part – a PCB control board – was £218 including VAT. Labour for 2 hours was £110. Total bill: £328. The plumber said yes, the boiler is old, but still in very good condition. Probably lots of life in it yet. When I spoke to him yesterday he added, just for the pot, that British Gas had just appeared on the TV programme Watchdog this week. I didn't see the programme, but I bet it wasn't favourable for good old BG.

So the moral of this story is: don't believe the plumber's mantra without doing your own research first, ESPECIALLY if its comes from British Gas. Plumbers love installing new boilers because straight replacements are very easy to do, and they can charge a fortune for them.

For any of you who would like to do what I did, this is how I researched and finally solved the problem. First I decided to try to find a supplier of spare parts. Eventually I found this great parts website for the heating industry:

http://www.interpartspares.co.uk

From that site I found a very helpful spare parts supplier just down the road from my property. For anyone in North Finchley or near that area of North London, the shop is called W H I Simpson, their address is Unit 9, rear of 944-946 High Road, Finchley, London N12 9RT, their telephone number is 0208–343 7090. And surprise, surprise, they stock all parts for Potterton Lynx boilers, amongst others.

And here's another tip folks. When you want some fair advice, like how to find a plumber who won't rip you off, ask someone in the know who STANDS TO BENEFIT BY TELLING YOU. Spare parts shops want to sell spare parts, not new boilers, right, so who better to ask? I asked the spare parts shop to recommend a plumber who isn't obsessed by new boilers, and they did. After all, plumbers are their customers. The plumber they recommended was great. If any moneysavers out there would like his details, please let me know.

And as for British Gas, I'm going to tell them what they can do with their expensive 'service contract'. In the meantime, we can all help each other by warning everyone we know about it. We also need to be vocal about it to the plumbing industry. And if we all switch to honest plumbers, perhaps the mantra chanters will get the message ...

Ah, that old chestnut from BG...

I always used the local HRPC for parts, they always had parts in stock for boilers 30 yrs old. They're now called Partscenter, if you want to check availablility of any particular part, try -

http://www.partscenter.co.uk/hrpc/default.html

Not the cheapest, but always had what I needed on stock.

For boilers, including standard non-combi boilers, infact anything central heating, try

http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/

they supply through Plumbcenter or direct from manufacturers at a good discount over the over-the-counter prices. Great people too!

In response to Lorraine Turner, there have been quite a few threads here relating to what you are talking about, recently I helped someone locate parts they had been told were obsolete. The behaviour you have described by the plumbers that basically misled you is indefensible. Part of the problem isn't always a lack of honesty, but a lack of knowledge and competence, and many take the easy option and condemn a perfectly safe boiler, or claim they can't get the parts etc. Obviously this dosen't apply with BG, but if the engineer is told by his boss that he can't order the parts through them then as far as he's concerned the part is 'unavailable'.

Being Corgi registered and competent to decide whether a boiler is operating safely is not the same as being competent to diagnose and repair operating faults. In most cases I would certainly repair rather than chant 'new boiler' but sometimes I might advise for a replacement for cost-effectiveness if the heat-exchanger is obviously rotten and the parts are very expensive, but if it's not unsafe then the decision is the client's. If I took £300 off of you for a repair and the following month it really did conk out for good you might wonder why I didn't warn you (this has actually happened to a property owner that I know and he was spending on this thing every couple of months until he finally conceded and got it changed).

In my opinion the people advising that condensing boilers are having teething problems are a little behind the times. The early ones were appalling but there are some brilliant ones on the market now, Alpha, Vaillant and Worcester are all very good quality, have stainless steel heat exchangers and are available on Government backed incentive schemes all being 'A' rated. You being a landlord I understand that it's reliability that concerns you most rather than the running costs, but all three of the above brands are well-known for reliable products and brilliant back-up service. Alot of the 'old school' plumbers grumbling about condensing boilers that I know are the same ones still grumbling about combi boilers, even though most are now very, very good, maybe they're not suitable for all properties but it's up to a good engineer to advise correctly. Of course there are rubbish ones but then there have always been rubbish conventional boilers too.

Good advice about recommendations, decent suppliers do tend to get a feel for which of their customers are good and bad, and about using honest plumbers. However, most people are pretty vocal about the plumbing industry, and so much of what people think is pure myth. Most only earn between £20K and £30K with hard work, not a bad wage but way off what the papers say at £70K and even £150K (!!!). There will always be exceptions that prove the rule but it is a tough trade to be in with alot of responsibility and masses of red tape to get through so spare us a thought .