"loft space"

Libra1975 · 21 August 2007 at 10:17AM

I have looked at several houses recently where the lofts have been converted but apparently aren't allowed to be called rooms in the estate agents bumpf because they don't have the legalities
covered. What I was wondering is to be called a room does it just need planning permission or does it have to be covered by building regulations and what exactly is the difference between the two?
Should you have both or is one enough?

Thanks!

Doozergirl · 21 August 2007 at 10:20AM

YOu may not need planning permission to convert a loft but you should have building regulations approval.

Plannig permission allows you to create a certain type of space, building regulations ensures that any significant building work carried out on any building at any time complies with all saftey legislation.

Even without building regulations sign-off a loft can still be a room (although it should have been signed off) - the most important thing is that the original joists are replaced with ones large enough to hold the weight of a room and not just the weight of a ceiling below. There are then certainly safety issues with regard to fire and escape which you must consider before using it as a habitable room.

Libra1975 · 21 August 2007 at 10:40AM

But to be allowed to call it a room in estate agents bumpf what are the legalities you need to have covered?

Thanks for your help.

lucysmum_2 · 21 August 2007 at 11:17AM

Hiya, to be a room it needs building regs but to be a 'habitable room' ie one used for say a bedroom, you need planning permission. If a bedroom you also need a door to seal of the room as per fire regulations. The whole process has been tightened up recently. People tend to convert their attics and not gain the correct permissions and when they come to sell their ea realises and they cannot therefore sell that room as a proper room, just 'loft space' or 'storage'. One thing to bear in mind is you may have issues with your mortgage lender (if you have one) with regards to this, they may insist on the correct permissions being in place before releasing your funds. Hope this helps.

PasturesNew · 21 August 2007 at 11:24AM

As said before, while a loft room can be used for storage, hobby room, play room, for it to be counted as a "habitable room" (bedroom/living space) it would need to comply with building regs. Planning permission may/may not be required depending on a number of issues I won't go into here.

I've looked into this before. From memory some things you might potentially have to change to comply with building regs are:
1) Distance between the joists (17" I believe)/size of joists
2) Wall Insulation
3) Ceiling below/floor of loft might need to be "30 minute fireproof"
4) Access to the loft should have a door, either at the bottom of the stairs or at the top, with the staircase being enclosed (not open) and subject to "30 minute fireproofing"
5) Window/escape access has to meet the legal minimum
6) Party wall might come into it - this is to do with informing neighbours when you are working up against the adjoining wall (didn't quite ever understand what/why but you might come across this one)
7) Ceiling height

Bound to be loads more, but there's a starting list of what you're looking at.

Good luck

Doozergirl · 21 August 2007 at 11:58AM

It's not that black and white. A room can have all the legal paperwork, but if it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is illegal. Under the premise that it doesn't have planning permission or building regs, then any pre-war house is certainly 'illegal' - it doesn't mean it isn't a house!

EAs cannot misdescribe the room. If it isn't structurally stable then you can sue. So they will say 'loft space' if the owner cannot confirm to them that is is structurally sound.

If your surveyor is happy that is is structurally sound and would be safe to use, then it is a room. You might want an indemnity policy to cover you for the chance that building control come knocking, which in reality is very small indeed. After 12 months, they'd have to start full on court proceedings to make you change anything. Before that, they can simply serve notice.

sham63 · 21 August 2007 at 1:01PM

lucysmum wrote: »

Hiya, to be a room it needs building regs but to be a 'habitable room' ie one used for say a bedroom, you need planning permission. If a bedroom you also need a door to seal of the room as per fire regulations. The whole process has been tightened up recently. People tend to convert their attics and not gain the correct permissions and when they come to sell their ea realises and they cannot therefore sell that room as a proper room, just 'loft space' or 'storage'. One thing to bear in mind is you may have issues with your mortgage lender (if you have one) with regards to this, they may insist on the correct permissions being in place before releasing your funds. Hope this helps.

Just wanted to point out that the first sentance of the above post is incorrect.

Planning permission is not always required for a loft room used as a bedroom(as it may be 'permitted development'), although Building Regs will always be required.

This means that a converted loft used as a bedroom with Building Regs but no Planning Permission may still be OK. However it can get complicated when the surveyor/solicitor demands written confirmation that planning permission was not required!

Doozergirl · 21 August 2007 at 1:35PM

sham63, SELL TO ME! I'll give you £100,000 for the building regs.

:rotfl:

Doozergirl · 21 August 2007 at 1:38PM

No? You're not talking.

Alright, call it £90k

robholygrail · 21 August 2007 at 1:43PM

I am in this position too. I have an agreed offer on a 'two' bedroom house. Our survey came back saying that the loft room cannot be used as habitable accomodation as it doesn't meet the regs in terms of stability (the floor is on the loft joists), fire regs and staircase arrangement.

It looks as though if we sell it on then it would have to be sold as a one bed house with 'loft space'. The EA had advertised it as a two bed house.

We are now not sure whether to pull out of the sale or revise our offer to reflect this. Any advice?

Doozergirl · 21 August 2007 at 1:47PM

If the floor is on the original joists then you should certainly revise your offer! Boarding a loft is nowhere near a loft extension. To do it anywhere near properly will cost thousands.

Depends on whether you want a one or a two bed. If it isn't *stable*, it most certainly isn't a room!

"loft space"

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