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A possible solution to the potential chancel repair liability problem.
Phaid
Posts: 19 Forumite
After researching this problem on the net, it seemed like a lost cause, but after looking through some paperwork and a chat with my solicitor it seems that it isn't such a lost cause after all. To be quite honest I'm sure I've got it wrong somewhere or otherwise I'd have found this stuff out on the net, but thats were you lot come in, if I have got it wrong, please be gentle with me 
Anyway, my solicitor has sent me my Chancel Check Report today and I'm now also in this potential liability mess and I'm far from happy about it.
I don’t subscribe to any religion and I’d personally like to see all religious buildings and symbols demolished. It’s only now as a third time buyer, that I find that if my wish were to come true, I might have to pay for them to be put back up again…..ooh the irony!
For the record, I don’t want to offend the faithful with my comments above and if I have, please remember the old adage ‘opinions are like $rseholes, everyone’s got one’ and then accept my apologies
All of the options for dealing with this law, that I’ve seen on the net seem to be flawed, but after referring back to my report there is an option on the ChancelSure Insurance Policy Premiums for an ‘in perpetuity period of successor cover’ that I’ve not seen mentioned anywhere even on the ChancelSure website. It’s not cheap, the standard quote for the 25 years 25K non successor cover which is widely quoted all over the net is £59.88.
The in perpetuity period of successor cover equivalent to the above is £145.88. Let’s face it, we all know it’s a complete rip off and they haven’t even the decency to make it .99!
My solicitor advised me that everyone else in this position just pays the £59.88, which has also now become a requirement for my mortgage to go ahead. I’ve told my solicitor that I’m not everyone else and will not complete the purchase with this potential liability hanging over the sale. She also said, that when she has asked sellers, in the past, to provide the £59.88 for the buyer, the seller has always said no.
I asked her if I could instruct her to complete a full check on the property and find out once and for all whether it’s liable or not. This would cost me money, but would hopefully come up as a no which would be in everyone’s best interests.
However, if it didn’t this could make the property ‘worthless’ and the sale would fall through, she said that this could be done.
Please note that this is an option I would not wish to take, my beef is with this damn law not the sellers!
My next suggestion to her was as it’s highly likely that the sellers probably don’t know about this charming law, they’re unlikely to say no to a 50/50 split of the £145.88 which would mean that I wouldn’t have to carry out the full search (a mild threat) saving a lot of hassle and grief and everyone would be happy. She is going to put this in writing to the seller’s solicitor.
I'm now regretting this decision and hopefully will be able to stop her sending the letter on Tuesday. Main reason is that as long as this ‘in perpetuity‘ policy does and will remove any possibility of a bloke in a frock turning up at my door demanding money ever and for whoever, I will pay for it myself. I love the house and I do not want to jeopardise losing it.
I've scanned the premium policy documents and will happily mail them to anyone who asks, there's a lot more options on them than I've mentioned above. This all seems to good to be true, but I really do hope that this will work out.
So what do you think is this a way around the problem?
Regards,
Phaid.
Anyway, my solicitor has sent me my Chancel Check Report today and I'm now also in this potential liability mess and I'm far from happy about it.
I don’t subscribe to any religion and I’d personally like to see all religious buildings and symbols demolished. It’s only now as a third time buyer, that I find that if my wish were to come true, I might have to pay for them to be put back up again…..ooh the irony!
For the record, I don’t want to offend the faithful with my comments above and if I have, please remember the old adage ‘opinions are like $rseholes, everyone’s got one’ and then accept my apologies
All of the options for dealing with this law, that I’ve seen on the net seem to be flawed, but after referring back to my report there is an option on the ChancelSure Insurance Policy Premiums for an ‘in perpetuity period of successor cover’ that I’ve not seen mentioned anywhere even on the ChancelSure website. It’s not cheap, the standard quote for the 25 years 25K non successor cover which is widely quoted all over the net is £59.88.
The in perpetuity period of successor cover equivalent to the above is £145.88. Let’s face it, we all know it’s a complete rip off and they haven’t even the decency to make it .99!
My solicitor advised me that everyone else in this position just pays the £59.88, which has also now become a requirement for my mortgage to go ahead. I’ve told my solicitor that I’m not everyone else and will not complete the purchase with this potential liability hanging over the sale. She also said, that when she has asked sellers, in the past, to provide the £59.88 for the buyer, the seller has always said no.
I asked her if I could instruct her to complete a full check on the property and find out once and for all whether it’s liable or not. This would cost me money, but would hopefully come up as a no which would be in everyone’s best interests.
However, if it didn’t this could make the property ‘worthless’ and the sale would fall through, she said that this could be done.
Please note that this is an option I would not wish to take, my beef is with this damn law not the sellers!
My next suggestion to her was as it’s highly likely that the sellers probably don’t know about this charming law, they’re unlikely to say no to a 50/50 split of the £145.88 which would mean that I wouldn’t have to carry out the full search (a mild threat) saving a lot of hassle and grief and everyone would be happy. She is going to put this in writing to the seller’s solicitor.
I'm now regretting this decision and hopefully will be able to stop her sending the letter on Tuesday. Main reason is that as long as this ‘in perpetuity‘ policy does and will remove any possibility of a bloke in a frock turning up at my door demanding money ever and for whoever, I will pay for it myself. I love the house and I do not want to jeopardise losing it.
I've scanned the premium policy documents and will happily mail them to anyone who asks, there's a lot more options on them than I've mentioned above. This all seems to good to be true, but I really do hope that this will work out.
So what do you think is this a way around the problem?
Regards,
Phaid.
The best things in life are FREE 
- It's the next to best things that keep you broke
- It's the next to best things that keep you broke 0
Comments
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Hi Phaid,
I'm in exactly the same position as yourself; as in just had the search results back on the house we're purchasing and discovered that we're a 'potentially high risk' of being liable for for this Chancelry Repair Rubbish.
As far as I know it's not part of our mortgage agreement and I plan just not to pay for the insurance.
If some bloke in a frock (as you so eloquently put it) turns up and wants money to install Sky TV in his church, he'll be told to take me to court for it.0 -
Hi Phaid,
If some bloke in a frock (as you so eloquently put it) turns up and wants money to install Sky TV in his church, he'll be told to take me to court for it.
Thats all well and good but I think the issue is that if this bloke in a frock does come, whether or not you pay the repair costs, the value of your house will be wiped out as you can no longer sell it. This is due to the fact that you will not be able to get insurance for such costs in the future following a church putting in a claim, meaning that no one will buy your house as they will be at risk of potential large bill.
Well that is how I understood things to be but I am not sure whether this subject is being overdone on this website.
My solicitor didnt seem to make a big deal out of it but it doesnt mean it isnt important.0 -
Hi Phaid,
As far as I know it's not part of our mortgage agreement and I plan just not to pay for the insurance.
Check this out carefully, my solicitor has agreed with me that the main function of the £59.88 year insurance policy is to cover the house for the period of the average mortgage. If it was for your benefit it would be 'in perpetuity', so it's really just to cover your lender more so than you.
Once it's been verified that the £145.88 policy will clear the house of this absurd law completely, I will be getting it.
I'd prefer to know the actual status of the house though, but we all know the risks that could happen with doing that.ukbondraider wrote: »
Well that is how I understood things to be but I am not sure whether this subject is being overdone on this website.
My solicitor didnt seem to make a big deal out of it but it doesnt mean it isnt important.
I agree that this subject is 'overdone' and my solicitor was as complacent about it as yours and for fair reason, the chances of a claim are next to nil in reality. The reason I made the post was to highlight the £145.88 in perpetuity policy which I've not seen advertised or even mentioned anywhere on the net.
I suspect the govt will get around to doing something about this law, but getting rid of it would probably benefit a good 50% of the population, so they won't be in any rush to do it :mad:
Regards,
Phaid.The best things in life are FREE - It's the next to best things that keep you broke 0 -
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I have just read the ChancelSure policy options and for a residential property, there is a choice of 25 years, 35 years or "in perpetuity period of cover."
What does perpetuity mean in this context?
If I take up the third option and for successor, am I covering all the bases?
Where could it fall flat on it's as*?
Does the insurance only cover one claim (no matter how small?) after which it is ceased as liability has been registered? If so, it seems pretty pointless.
Hi, I will be finding out the full details hopefully tomorrow. So once I know I'll post it here. The third option is the only one that seems to offer 'full' protection against the church other than just not buying the house of course.
I was sort of hoping that someone who had read this thread would have already chimed in with the info, but not to worry tomorrow is another day as they say.
Regards,
Phaid.The best things in life are FREE - It's the next to best things that keep you broke 0 -
I've spoke to ChancelSure and the £145.88 policy stays with the house forever and is passed on to whoever buys the house from you.
This covers you for 250K, there can be multiple claims made by the church up to that limit. If that limit is reached you are then stuck and are back to the situation were further insurance will be impossible.
It would seem that in a worse case scenario you could still end up 'on your as$', though not as bad a fall if you only take the 25 year policy.
There is also a cheaper 100K option for £95.88 with the same terms.
I'm undecided, but will probably go for the 250K, there are only 2 ways of covering yourself 100%, either run the full check and keep your fingers crossed or don't buy the house.
Next time you see your local vicar don't forget to thank him for all of the unnecessary worry his 'firm' has put you through! :mad:
Hope the above helps,
Regards,
Phaid.The best things in life are FREE - It's the next to best things that keep you broke 0 -
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They don't have any option - the Parochial Church Councils have a statutory requirement to pursue the house owners for the money!TheGame7 wrote:Furthermore, if chancels are making an active effort to seek out liability from innocent home owners they too should be ashamed of themselves!
As the Bishop's response (on http://www.chancelrepair.org/7.html) says: Furthermore the statutory responsibility for maintaining parish churches falls upon the Parochial Church Councils. These are subject to the provisions of charity and trust law and they are under a duty in carrying out their statutory responsibility to seek what funds are legally available to them of which they are aware.Philip0 -
A couple of questions about your findings..
1) Is 250k the maximum you can take out as my policy list seems to go up to £2.5m (but is about £380).
Looks like you have the same documentation as me.
2) Do ChancelSure have the option to cancel the policy?
As if so, what's to stop them pulling out after the first claim is made or if the liability is simply registered? Even though they say its forever, they may feel after one claim that they can use a get out clause, give their notice and leave you in the lurch.
I was told that it covers the property up until that insured amount has been reached, after that your on your own and screwed.
I dare say that they could get out of it, somehow, they are an insurance company after all.
I'm not going to worry about that though as I've worried enough over this shameful law.
The reality is that if the church do start doing this to people, I'd predict lots more church's would need restoration rather quickly.
If you have answers to those two questions or plan to get them, please let me know.
On a finishing note, this law is disgusting to say the least. They should have insurance to cover repairs not prey on the innocent. The government should be ashamed of themselves for not abolishing it completely when it became public knowledge as a result of the infamous case. Furthermore, if chancels are making an active effort to seek out liability from innocent home owners they too should be ashamed of themselves!
Could not agree with you more!
I'm going to take out the £148 policy, because I can afford it and it will give me more piece of mind than the £59 policy.
Please take into account that I'm a natural born worrier as well
I've spoke to the insurance people and I'm happy about what they've said.
If you are unsure please contact them and ask for yourself.
I made this thread to make the public aware of this 'forever' policy rather than the advertised 25 year one, I do hope this thread has helped others. This is of course, a much more christian gesture on my part than what has caused the need for this thread in the first place! I'm now going to stop thinking about this whole thing and try to forget about it, I love the house and I'm looking forward to moving in.
I'll look forward to the local vicar coming round to welcome me to his parish............... any suggestions as to what to have ready for him, tea, biscuits, baseball bat LOL ?
Regards,
Phaid.The best things in life are FREE - It's the next to best things that keep you broke 0
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