Name And Shame! Which?

s@sha · 6 April 2005 at 9:03AM

nemo183 wrote:

Which? seems to have many problems.

1) Tacky advertising
2) An ageing reader base
3) Specialist reports which seem to lack crucial players. It just seems to me that whenever they publish a report on a subject I know something about, it's missing key players - which then makes me doubt all the other reports.
4) An internet pricing policy that invites me to pay monthly for content that I have already been sent by post.
5) As a previous paying customer, the annoyance of hearing on the radio, days before my printed copy arrives that I've paid for, the latest findings of what's contained in it.
6) Apart from the tacky prize draws, the apparent absence of any other creative approach to winning new customers.

In addition, there seem to be numerous articles featuring people and championing their causes that, for the most part, just serve those taking part right for behaving in the first place like headless chickens.

I too have subscribed to Which for about eight years, and I would have to agree several of the points you make, especially the annoyance of hearing the BBC news telling everyone about the latest Which? report before I've even got my copy.

As to the member surveys they use to supposedly gain accurate information of customer satisfaction...their regular survey to find the best current account is one that springs to mind...I've noticed recently how few of the members that have been contacted for their opinions even bother to reply. It's always along the lines of "we sent questionnaires to 5000 Which? members asking blah blah blah...we had 550 replies..."

Who are these subscribers who are supposedly interested enough in consumer affairs to bother subscribing...yet when it comes to making their voice heard & helping to form an accurate report for the benefit of everyone, including themselves, they can't be bothered?

Probably the ones that don't even read the mag, having not bothered to cancel their DD that they don't realise is being taken from their account after they've had their 3 free issues?

gromituk · 6 April 2005 at 10:40AM

gerryco wrote:

Just because unscrupulous traders use similar techniques doesn't make Which? unscrupulous.

What do you say to this then?

hankspears wrote:

About one month before the prize draw, the date suddenly moved back a year! There was no announcement, they just referred to the new draw date as if nothing had happened.

gerryco wrote:

Perhaps you have some better ideas about how Which? might fund their research???

By marketing methods which don't alienate a sizeable proportion of their potential membership, perhaps?

And from what I've read on here, it seems the thing is a bit of an anachronism anyway. It may have been useful 30+ years ago, but nowadays the pace of technological development and product replacement lifecycle is just too high for it to keep up, and the convergence in ideas, experience, manufacturing techniques and quality control means that there really isn't that much difference between the performance and reliability of products any more. After all, look at the average car ad. What does it use to sell the car? Fashion. Nothing to do with any engineering advantage one vehicle might have over another, because they all just work most of the time!

isayoldchap · 8 April 2005 at 1:36PM

peterbaker wrote:

I agree with any sentiment that Which? are well past their sell by date. I was a subscriber for many years. I cancelled last month after inflating their coffers for far too long. Being a magazine subscriber used to qualify me for some free legal help at one point I think. Then, wehen I needed it, I found I had to pay another ten quid a quarter for that extra service and I also found it was as useless as most legal insurance is when the chips were down. I won a legal case without them offering to lift so much as a finger (they said I had a poor chance of winning or some other such thing that avoided the issue). I also noticed that the legal service examples they gave on the back of each magazine were beginning to scrape the bottom of the barrel in terms of usefulness to anyone other than the individuals in the stories.

I have actually found no use for Which? magazine articles for a very long time. As some other poster said in this thread, it was their extremely shallow and misleading articles about Credit Cards which swung it for me. I realised they were not committed to complete research of the subject, and in some cases were downright lazy in their reporting. I even had a Which? Beneficial Bank credit card, but they kicked the affiliation into touch when they had lost touch with why they launched it!

As Martin may have realised, I and many people like me, get all the candid consumerist leads we need from MSE thesedays! RIP Which? Long live MSE!

Why don't they sell it in the newsagents for a more sensible price every month for say £1.50?

MSE_Martin · 9 April 2005 at 2:26AM

Just an update on this. Which has now responded and I am going to meet the Director of Campaigns next week to chat through it. So hopefully some good will come of doing this.

trafalgar_2 · 9 April 2005 at 1:13PM

Great stuff,lets hope they listen

zappomatic · 9 April 2005 at 3:34PM

My partner used to work for Subscriptions Marketing Limited, and Which? was one of their clients. This is a company which cold-calls people offering discounted or trial magazine subscriptions, and of course employs the old trick of setting up a direct debit in the hope that people would forget to cancel. When people phoned up early to cancel they were fobbed off and told to call back closer to the date when the trial ended. Even then it was made difficult to cancel. Staff were not treated well, and disciplined if they were found to be making it too easy for people to cancel their subscritpions. Not only this but they used an out of date TPS database, and the only way people could be removed from their records so as not to be called again was to note the person down as being deceased. I really don't understand why supposedly the Consumers Association employs such tactics, especially through a company with so much malpractice.

joolyg · 14 April 2005 at 4:45PM

I used to work for Which? on their members helpline. When I started (about 6 years ago) they were a brilliant company to work for. They went to great lengths to make sure that we were not known of as a "Call Centre" which at the time was a four letter word. We were allowed to spend as much time as possible on the 'phone with members and giving excellent, accurate advice and information was key. Then slowly but surely things changed - all of a sudden our calls were being timed, monitored, listened into and no longer was quality the key issue - it was quantity of calls.
The Prize draw is a shoddy practice and was detested by all that worked there. However it has to be said that it was a very effective method of drawing in more unsuspecting subscribers. Many didn't realise that they had completed a direct debit mandate when they responded to the prize draw.
I have a few friends who still work there and they hate it. They now have targets and MUST sell subscriptions in order to earn money. The whole ethos is now completely wrong, and I would never sign up for the mag. They don't even do their own testing now (they did when I was there) - it is farmed out to an outside company. Their reports are quite often out of date and are not re-visited often enough to be of any use.
Don't misunderstand me - I LOVED working for them - I became very knowledgable and was empowered as a consumer. I made some great friends and really believed in the work they were doing. They were BRILLIANT as amployers. BUT that all changed and they decided to go down a more commercial route. I am really glad I got out when I did.
So bin those prize draws and stick with Martin's INDEPEDANT advice!

MSE_Martin · 18 April 2005 at 5:52PM

When I originally sent the Name and Shame, I copied Which? in and asked for a response. It very kindly invited me in for a meeting with its Chief Executive and heads of campaigns and press offices.

It was a friendly and productive meet - after all MoneySaving and the Consumers Association have much in common, and very similar enemies. As I noted originally, I'm a fan of the Consumers Associations campaigns

Unfortunately Which? is going to continue the prize draw for the forseeable future, it's explained the reasons why, and while I understand them, I haven't changed my mind. I believe it sends a message to consumers that similar, though less scrupulous, manipulative promotions can be okay.

However, i'm keen you make up your own minds, so at the end of the meeting I asked Peter Vicary-Smith the Which? Chief Exec if he'd mind writing a reply to MoneySavers, so you as well as me could hear the arguments - the following is his note.

From Peter Vicary-Smith,
Chief Executive, Which?

"Which? is a charity and our campaigning work relies solely on our magazine subscribers. We are unique in not taking money from industry or government. Of course this gives us the freedom to take on the powers that be, which you will have seen from our recent work on ATMs, and our supercomplaint about banks in Northern Ireland.

"Because Which? magazine is not available on news-stands, we need to find ways of getting the magazine into peoples’ hands, so they can see if they like it. We’ve found the incentive of the prize draw is highly effective.

"Which? has used prize draw for many years; it’s a genuine offer and is fairly and properly carried out. While we’ve received very few complaints about it we’re extremely conscious that some people don’t believe it’s the right thing for us to do, which is why we’re continually looking at viable alternatives. We’ve already started to use other marketing techniques including key word searches, press advertising, direct response TV and SMS.

"We genuinely welcome the debate that this website has generated, and as Martin saw in his discussion with us, we’re always open to suggestions for change."

MrLew · 20 April 2005 at 5:57PM

Nice one Martin.

At least they're sitting up and listening which is much more than most would do.

As you say - everyone should make their own minds up about it.

However, the statement from their CEO which says "Because Which? magazine is not available on news-stands" puzzles me. Is there a good reason for it not being available on News stands ? Cost of distribution maybe ?

I have often thought of subscribing but decided not to as i probably wouldn't be interested in most of the stuff they test/review. But, if it was on the news stands i'd probably find myself buying it now and then when there's an article of interest. I'm sure i'm not the only one to think that. Wouldn't that be making it available to more consumers ?

Many of the consumers the magazine is aimed at are probably from a background that are unlikely to want to, or afford to, subscribe. Putting it on the news stands gives them the opportunity to buy it and try it.

Anyway, less of my ramblings.

regards
mrlew

nemo183 · 20 April 2005 at 6:31PM

I know this thread started as a discussion re the prize draw, and it's a positive sign that Which? were concerned enough to meet with Martin. I think that they should also have made an attempt to refute the general feeling of this thread that it's not just the marketing, but the content that's letting them down.

By the way, is it co-incidence, or did I see another style of ad for them at the weekend advertising a "free" report on digital TV?

Maybe the real problem is that they are just stuck in a rut, and need both a total review of their content and quality, and some creative input on marketing?

Name And Shame! Which?

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