Unenforceability & Template Letters II

ejc81 · 19 February 2010 at 1:56AM

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Glad you like, its basically a more formal approach issuing the relevant threats thus meaning if they don't comply you can skip court (lol) and go straight to the CRA's who are duty bound to remove the default anyway!

Lets see what they say - post back when they reply.

I'm liking the skip court part

I posted recorded delivery today so I will post back as soon as I get a response.

Thanks again for the letter

mk_chatham · 19 February 2010 at 7:47AM

ejc81 wrote: »

You could however SAR them for all information which is likely to include piles of unfair bank charges and also get you the CCA for any credit cards you held with them at the same time

Yes, I was thinking along the same lines myself

Although I have been very careful to avoid any charges in the past, the way they have treated me recently means that I am quite happy to go through the twenty or so years of paperwork they may send, if there is only one unfair charge there I'll find it ! :rotfl:

After spending the last four days reading this entire thread, I guess I had better start on the reclaiming bank charges one now .....

never-in-doubt · 19 February 2010 at 11:07AM

ejc81 wrote: »

You could however SAR them for all information which is likely to include piles of unfair bank charges and also get you the CCA for any credit cards you held with them at the same time

I'm actually one of the few on here that feels a SAR is a wasted tenner, why bother when the CCA only costs £1? PLUS part of CCA is to send statements, so its actually £9cheaper and comes within 14 days, not 40.....

Lots of cons to the SAR but the biggest (in my opinion) is the fact SAR is governed by ICO (no legal powers) but the CCA request (s.78) is an act and protected by the CCA1974 which does have legal powers.

With bank account overdrafts, you basically pay them or ignore them - little they can really do.

never-in-doubt · 19 February 2010 at 11:09AM

mk_chatham wrote: »

Yes, I was thinking along the same lines myself

Although I have been very careful to avoid any charges in the past, the way they have treated me recently means that I am quite happy to go through the twenty or so years of paperwork they may send, if there is only one unfair charge there I'll find it ! :rotfl:

After spending the last four days reading this entire thread, I guess I had better start on the reclaiming bank charges one now .....

Don't worry about this mate, you can also only go back 6 years - not 20.....

:D Bank charge reclaiming is easy - but to get the charges you'll have to SAR them, they will then send the statements, you then search them for charges and apply for a refund - you know what? They will only add them to the debt, it will not be refunded to you and they will usually only refund the difference between £12 and whatever they charged.

Unless you know for a fact you have hundreds of charges it really isn't worth it....

AndyLGR · 19 February 2010 at 5:10PM

Just a quick post to say many thanks for the help here.

I had a HBOS credit card that I owed around £1600 on, this was defaulted about 3 years ago now. I requested the CCA from the DCA (Lowells) and they have written back today to say that '...after liasing with HBOS we have been advised that the document is no longer available......... at this time we have closed our file and will not make any further contact with you concerning the account unless the a copy of the agreement is reveived at some point in the future from HBOS'

So the question I have is, IF that document did turn up in the future, when does the 6 year rule apply for them not being able to collect? Is is from last contact or last payment? Or if the default drops off my credit file in 3 years time can they not collect on it once it disappears from my file?

never-in-doubt · 19 February 2010 at 5:22PM

AndyLGR wrote: »

Just a quick post to say many thanks for the help here.

I had a HBOS credit card that I owed around £1600 on, this was defaulted about 3 years ago now. I requested the CCA from the DCA (Lowells) and they have written back today to say that '...after liasing with HBOS we have been advised that the document is no longer available......... at this time we have closed our file and will not make any further contact with you concerning the account unless the a copy of the agreement is reveived at some point in the future from HBOS'

So the question I have is, IF that document did turn up in the future, when does the 6 year rule apply for them not being able to collect? Is is from last contact or last payment? Or if the default drops off my credit file in 3 years time can they not collect on it once it disappears from my file?

Well done mate - unenforceable :T:T:T

The statute barred date (i.e. 6 year limitation) has begun mate, its the date you last made payment (or acknowledged the debt). You've not acknowledged anything, you've simply requested a CCA in order to establish the legality and proper ownership of said debt....

:D make sense mate? lol

So 6 years from date of last payment. However, bear in mind the default will drop off 6 years after default date - so usually this will be gone long before statute barred anyway....

chinawhite_2 · 19 February 2010 at 5:43PM

Hi

i have just received my CCA from MBNA (requested in August !!!), bit disappointed as never thought they would have it as its from 1994 but hey ho !!!

Could someone advise whether its enforcable in their opinion, its headed Uk scenic series visa card application form and underneath that it says credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 there is then the copy of the app form filled in and signed by me, on the second page they have sent are the conditions of use , this has credit limit (determined from time to time) and interest rates etc.

My scanner is not playing at the moment so I cant post a copy but would be grateful for any advice.

thanks:)

burton_trade_kitchens · 20 February 2010 at 12:22AM

Hi NID,
I have recieved another letter from Barclaycard today. They have also sent the debt over to Mercers for collection activities, who are sending a doorstep collection company to me.
I have written to them with the letter you gave me a few days ago telling them not to bother etc. I also sent Mercers the letter saying it should be passed back to the Origional Creditor etc as is in Dispute. ( all recorded delivery)
Any how can you please have a quick look at the third page of their letter for me if you don't mind. The first two pages were dribble about what they are entitled to supply etc and they say they have met their obligations under section 78 requests. They also say the debt is enforcable bla bla !!!
Page 3 of the letter reads:-
With reference to the Civil Procedure Rules (the CPR). We have provided you with sufficient information to allow you to understand our position. The CPR does not confer an automatic entitlement to documents before proceedings start. CPR 31.16 provides that a party may apply to the court for pre-action disclosure in certain limited circumstances, which do not apply here. The application must be supported by evidence- and the usual order is for the applicant to pay the costs of the application, including the respondent's costs, together with the respondents costs of complying with any order that is made as a result (CPR 48.1(2) ).
While there is no formal obligation on our part to provide documentation in answer to Validation of Debt correspondence, we have undertaken steps to provide you with the contractual terms under which your financial obligations arise and a statment of account.
I am fully satisfied that the sum outstanding by you remains legally due and payable. You should continue to repay the outstanding balance owed on your account in accordance with the terms of your credit agreement.
The last paragraph just says that they do not see the account as in dispute and that they have fulfilled their obligations under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. They then end by saying " We would require you to provide comprehensive legal and documentary evidence to support your claim to ascertain whether a response is necessary.

What does all the bit about the court and CPR mean ?????
Is it anything to worry about and should I respond to this letter????
Thanks again NID

never-in-doubt · 20 February 2010 at 2:12AM

burton_trade_kitchens wrote: »

Hi NID,
What does all the bit about the court and CPR mean ?????
Is it anything to worry about and should I respond to this letter????
Thanks again NID

Hi mate - first off, chill out lol. It's their standard response, loads of people on here have had the same (or similar) letter - basically they try and hide behind the term 'true copy' - however, throw it back at them and send the following (amend the bit that says what they sent to what they actually sent you...):

Dear Sirs,
Account No: XXXXXXXX

I write in response to your letter, received on XX/XX/XXXX.

In my original letter, dated XX/XX/XXXX, I requested a copy of the credit agreement relating to the account detailed above. I expected to receive an exact copy of that which you hold in your records i.e. a copy of the agreement which is signed by myself and your representative. Instead, I received a typed agreement with my name, address and account number on it.

Whilst I appreciate that under the regulations you are able to omit a signature and date box from the copy, I would like to hold in my records an exact copy of the document that you hold. I do not want a piece of paper that alludes to there being an agreement; I would like a photocopy of the actual agreement. I am requesting that you provide me a copy of the agreement that bears my signature as I have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed. In order to be able to adjudge my position effectively I would require a copy of the actual agreement that apparently exists and I therefore appeal to you to fulfil my request. I am willing to pay any reasonable charge that you feel is necessary, in order to provide a copy of the “actual” credit agreement.

In considering my request, I ask that you take a common sense approach and do not hold to the line that you have provided all that is expected of you nor the recent test case in manchester, namely and to be known as:
Carey v HSBC Bank Plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB) (23 December 2009).

I make my request in good faith and I feel it is a nonsense approach to hold to the idea that you won’t provide this document because you simply don’t have to. I feel that would take advantage of your position and such an approach from your business not be in the best interests of a healthy business/client relationship. I see no reason not to provide a photocopy of the requested document especially since you included a blank signature and date box on the copy you have sent. Why would it be necessary to not provide a photocopy of the actual document if you are going to send what you claim is an exact replica, minus the signatures? Why are you unwilling to provide the signatures anyway, I don’t really understand this stance? Unless, of course, you don’t actually have the document on record and so are unable to provide it, in which case I understand your actions. If it is the case that the original document is not in your possession, please advise this is your response letter.
I hope that you will find my request agreeable and look forward to your response within 14 days.

Yours faithfully

Sign digitally

never-in-doubt · 20 February 2010 at 2:14AM

chinawhite wrote: »

Hi

i have just received my CCA from MBNA (requested in August !!!), bit disappointed as never thought they would have it as its from 1994 but hey ho !!!

Could someone advise whether its enforcable in their opinion, its headed Uk scenic series visa card application form and underneath that it says credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 there is then the copy of the app form filled in and signed by me, on the second page they have sent are the conditions of use , this has credit limit (determined from time to time) and interest rates etc.

My scanner is not playing at the moment so I cant post a copy but would be grateful for any advice.

thanks:)

Put simply, is the signature (yours) on the same page as the prescribed terms, more importantly are they linked to it, like on the back or page 1 or 2 etc? If so then possibly enforceable but would need to see it to be sure....

If not then it is unenforceable and you send back letter 3. CCA Query

Unenforceability & Template Letters II

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