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Help / Legal Advice Needed re Car Insurance Problem
horizon
Posts: 200 Forumite
Hi
This will be a double post (insurance and motoring section) not sure which is best.
I need some help / legal advice for my son.
He insures his car monthly via direct debit with ecar insurance. His last months insurance ran out at 23.59 last night (end of 17th March) His next policy started at 00.00 today (beginning of 18th March)
In the early hours of this morning he was pulled over by the police, and accused of having no insurance.
Despite his protests his car was impounded, and he was presented with a ticket telling him he will get a £200 fine, 6 points on his licence (enough for a ban, as he only recently passed his test) and will need to pay £105 plus £12 per day storage to get his car back !!
He ended up having to walk miles home at two o'clock this morning, and is very upset.
He took his insurance documents in to the police station today, so they can check them. They called ecar to confirm he was insured. They confirmed he was insured. Despite this the police will not release his car until he pays the £105 + storage fees.
It appears that ecar didn't update their systems until 10am this morning to show he was insured, which was why he showed up as uninsured.
Both the police and ecar have washed their hands of the blame, and the car remains impounded with the bill rising each day.
My son has elected to go to court, rather than pay the £200 fine, but is still car less, not having enough money to get the car out of the pound.
Would we have good legal grounds to sue the police and/or ecar for this farcical situation ?
To my mind ecar should stump up the money to get his car back, and write an apology. Whats the chances ?
TIA
Horizon
This will be a double post (insurance and motoring section) not sure which is best.
I need some help / legal advice for my son.
He insures his car monthly via direct debit with ecar insurance. His last months insurance ran out at 23.59 last night (end of 17th March) His next policy started at 00.00 today (beginning of 18th March)
In the early hours of this morning he was pulled over by the police, and accused of having no insurance.
Despite his protests his car was impounded, and he was presented with a ticket telling him he will get a £200 fine, 6 points on his licence (enough for a ban, as he only recently passed his test) and will need to pay £105 plus £12 per day storage to get his car back !!
He ended up having to walk miles home at two o'clock this morning, and is very upset.
He took his insurance documents in to the police station today, so they can check them. They called ecar to confirm he was insured. They confirmed he was insured. Despite this the police will not release his car until he pays the £105 + storage fees.
It appears that ecar didn't update their systems until 10am this morning to show he was insured, which was why he showed up as uninsured.
Both the police and ecar have washed their hands of the blame, and the car remains impounded with the bill rising each day.
My son has elected to go to court, rather than pay the £200 fine, but is still car less, not having enough money to get the car out of the pound.
Would we have good legal grounds to sue the police and/or ecar for this farcical situation ?
To my mind ecar should stump up the money to get his car back, and write an apology. Whats the chances ?
TIA
Horizon
0
Comments
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HOUND the insurer (can say I have heard much about them) they are in the wrong, not your son.
I cant say this is something that I have come across before, they cant be a very big company, I would have thought it would have been done by computer automatically, it sounds as though someone had to update it manually (screams of small and unorgansied).
The insurer will no doubt try and brush it off but its their problem0 -
I'm not sure the best way of dealing with the Police fine. However, the insurer is not at fault in any way.
The database that the police use in these cases is called the Motor Insurance Database (MID). Insurers are not expected to instantaneously forward the required data to the MID. They only have to transfer 95% of data within 7 days (reduced from 14 days earlier this year), assessed on a 3-month rolling basis. It usually takes at least a couple of days for the MID to show a recently incepted or renewed policy.
It is unfortunate that he was stopped at such an awkward time - if it had been during working hours the police could have utilised the Police Helpline, who would have contacted your son's insurer to confirm the cover, then relayed the information to the police.
Utlimately the only proof of cover is a valid Certificate of Motor Insurance - did your son not receive a covernote or certificate with his renewal documentation?
IMO, if anyone is at fault, it is the police who may be being unreasonable as they could have issued a producer rather than seize the car. Although obviously it depends what was discussed at the time your son was stopped - if your son's protestations were not convicing then the police would have had reasonable grounds to seize the car.
BTW, you can check if your car is showing as insured on MID here: http://www.askmid.com/0 -
Nice post that Razkazz, wasnt fully aware of thatIMO, if anyone is at fault, it is the police who may be being unreasonable as they could have issued a producer rather than seize the car. Although obviously it depends what was discussed at the time your son was stopped - if your son's protestations were not convicing then the police would have had reasonable grounds to seize the car.
I would be surprised that the police would issue a producer if they think the vehicle is uninsured for third party risks0 -
Nice post that Razkazz, wasnt fully aware of that
I would be surprised that the police would issue a producer if they think the vehicle is uninsured for third party risks
They do still issue producers, although they do have the right to seize the car under s.165 of the RTA if they have reasonable grounds to believe it is uninsured.
This is why I suspect that, with the apparent culprit being young, the police seized the car as his explanation as to the insurance situation was not convincing.
To be fair, the police can't win - if they seize cars then innocent insured drivers are annoyed; if they let cars go with only a producer they may be letting drivers continue driving uninsured.0 -
Further to my last post, I thought I'd check out ecarinsurance as I'd not come across them before.
They actually have a very comprehensive set of FAQs, I'm quite impressed actually.
Amongst them is:"Q: I have been stopped by the police / my vehicle has been impounded because my vehicle is not on the MID, yet I have a valid policy with you. Why is this?A: It normally takes 3 days to add data onto the Motor Insurers’ Database (MID) and in some cases a little longer, therefore you may experience problems after taking a new policy out, when doing a change of vehicle and again at renewal.
The MIIC website states that ‘If the vehicle is not on the MID it does not necessarily mean it is uninsured, although the police will clearly wish to make further enquiries and may ask to see proof of insurance – the certificate of insurance is still the proof’.
If you wish to view the original source of this information, please click on the above link - this will take you to the MIIC website. The MIIC (Motor Insurers' Information Centre) is a division of the MIB (Motor Insurers' Bureau) and controls the MID (Motor Insurance Database). You will need to download the "Brokers FAQs" and go to question 15.
The police should be aware of this and that the MID is not a real time tool and not 100% accurate. It is at the discretion of the police as to whether they give drivers the opportunity to produce evidence of insurance, or impound the vehicle if they have reason to believe that the vehicle is uninsured.
If your vehicle has been impounded by the Police and a satisfactory reason is not forthcoming, you have the right to pursue the matter via the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).
We are not liable for impound charges.
We therefore recommend whilst you are driving you carry a copy of your motoring certificate as evidence of insurance."0 -
I'm not sure the best way of dealing with the Police fine. However, the insurer is not at fault in any way.
The database that the police use in these cases is called the Motor Insurance Database (MID). Insurers are not expected to instantaneously forward the required data to the MID. They only have to transfer 95% of data within 7 days (reduced from 14 days earlier this year), assessed on a 3-month rolling basis. It usually takes at least a couple of days for the MID to show a recently incepted or renewed policy.
It is unfortunate that he was stopped at such an awkward time - if it had been during working hours the police could have utilised the Police Helpline, who would have contacted your son's insurer to confirm the cover, then relayed the information to the police.
Utlimately the only proof of cover is a valid Certificate of Motor Insurance - did your son not receive a covernote or certificate with his renewal documentation?
IMO, if anyone is at fault, it is the police who may be being unreasonable as they could have issued a producer rather than seize the car. Although obviously it depends what was discussed at the time your son was stopped - if your son's protestations were not convicing then the police would have had reasonable grounds to seize the car.
BTW, you can check if your car is showing as insured on MID here: http://www.askmid.com/
Thanks for the answers so far.
My son does have a valid certificate of insurance, which he took to the police station today. Despite this and confirming it with the insurance company on the phone, they would not give the car back, or waive the £105 + storage charge.
He has to pay up or tough, then the car gets crushed !
W**nk**s ! :mad:0 -
Thanks for the answers so far.
My son does have a valid certificate of insurance, which he took to the police station today. Despite this and confirming it with the insurance company on the phone, they would not give the car back, or waive the £105 + storage charge.
He has to pay up or tough, then the car gets crushed !
W**nk**s ! :mad:
I know. I really feel for the younger drivers who are actually honest who get caught up in things like this because of the bad reputation their peers have.
Looks like your best course of action is the IPCC.0 -
Further to my last post, I thought I'd check out ecarinsurance as I'd not come across them before.
They actually have a very comprehensive set of FAQs, I'm quite impressed actually.
Amongst them is:"Q: I have been stopped by the police / my vehicle has been impounded because my vehicle is not on the MID, yet I have a valid policy with you. Why is this?A: It normally takes 3 days to add data onto the Motor Insurers’ Database (MID) and in some cases a little longer, therefore you may experience problems after taking a new policy out, when doing a change of vehicle and again at renewal.The MIIC website states that ‘If the vehicle is not on the MID it does not necessarily mean it is uninsured, although the police will clearly wish to make further enquiries and may ask to see proof of insurance – the certificate of insurance is still the proof’.If you wish to view the original source of this information, please click on the above link - this will take you to the MIIC website. The MIIC (Motor Insurers' Information Centre) is a division of the MIB (Motor Insurers' Bureau) and controls the MID (Motor Insurance Database). You will need to download the "Brokers FAQs" and go to question 15.The police should be aware of this and that the MID is not a real time tool and not 100% accurate. It is at the discretion of the police as to whether they give drivers the opportunity to produce evidence of insurance, or impound the vehicle if they have reason to believe that the vehicle is uninsured.If your vehicle has been impounded by the Police and a satisfactory reason is not forthcoming, you have the right to pursue the matter via the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).We are not liable for impound charges.We therefore recommend whilst you are driving you carry a copy of your motoring certificate as evidence of insurance."
Looks like ecar have nicely dodged having to cough up any money to get the car back !0 -
Our company has a fleet of around 760 cars, vans, trucks, possibly the odd motorcycle and maybe a insured motorised lawnmower.
Last year none of the vehicles appeared on MID and every car had to be taxed manually with a visit to the Post Office. We protested to the broker and the insurer who every month confirmed that everything was fine. We randomnly checked vehicles on https://www.askmid which confirmed that the vehicle was "uninsured".:rolleyes:
We spent the whole year with all these vehicles pounding up and down the motorway probably tripping off alerts at every ANPR system. Yet with most of these vehicles covering 20k to 50k miles per year not one single driver was stopped by the Police!The man without a signature.0 -
On fleet policies usually the broker will offer to undertake these duties as an enhanced service feature, rahther than the insurer. Shocking if they didn't do it all year!0
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