Funeral Costs

stargazeypie · 3 September 2009 at 4:15PM

Hi,

I'm unsure whether this is the right place to post or not, I'm also not really expecting miracles here, I have a suspicion that there's only one solution.

My dp's mother died about 4 months ago. We knew it was coming, but she had not made any plans or arrangements. She left no money and no assets.

The funeral was arranged by her mother, who was initially told that she would be able to get a funeral grant to cover the cost. (She is a retired widow) However, afterwards, she was apparently told that no, she couldn't have this after all. (I'm unsure of exactly why I'm afraid).

So, my dp's unemployed brother claimed instead. They have just been told that he cannot claim either, because my dp is working full time, and so, the £2000 funeral costs fall to him. But, I can't see how we can pay it. The undertaker's bill has been outstanding for 4 months now, it needs settling. DP isn't earning a fortune, probably £20,000 a year or thereabouts. I've just come out of full time education (literally last week, after struggling through summer with no loan to cover me, because I had been granted extensions), so I'm currently unemployed. I don't know how easily I'll find work given the current climate, and I'm pretty sure (though not certain) that I won't be able to claim jsa. I'm not expecting my dp to support me, but, if it comes to it, the rent has to be paid, and that may fall to him.

So really, the question is, can we do anything about this? Can we appeal it? Can we point out that this is 10% of a wage that, as things stand, is needed to support 2 people?

And can we ask why, why could they not have told us this 4 months ago, instead of stringing us all along with false expectations until it was really too late to start trying to sort out some kind of payment plan with the undertaker?

I'm sorry, that's an epic post, but I think I'm venting as much as anything else, because I can't say anything in real life. If I do, I'll cause upset, and arguments with my dp, and after all, it's not my mum. But, it is going to be us that end up scrimping and going short, and that WILL affect me, and it's all just incredibly frustrating.

Thank you

Wolfsbayne · 3 September 2009 at 4:44PM

You could try appealing but im guessing they are classing your partners income as your household's income which therefore means yours and thus there is supposedly money to pay for the funeral.

My dad had to claim funeral costs a couple of years ago for his brother, after a lot of hassle he got it but they won't pay for things like vicar's fee (evidently it isn't necessary for a funeral) or the cars, etc. Just the very basic costs so even if you did manage to appeal be prepared to pay a reasonable amount of the costs yourself.

On the other hand, most funeral directors will agree monthly payments if you discuss the problems with them.

AsknAnswer · 3 September 2009 at 5:03PM

You can appeal but it won't be overturned because they can only overturn the decision if the law has been applied incorrectly. The law appears to have been applied correctly, as both your DP and his brother and their grandmother, are immediate family members therefore regulation 8 applies. Unless both your DP (or you) and his grandmother were in reciept of one of the benefits stipulated in regulation 7 (4) at the date of the funeral payment claim, or fell within an excluded category, then their decision is correct.

An appeal cannot change the law, only apply it.

Here is a link to the relevant law: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20053061.htm

Regulation 8 applies.

They DO NOT take account of a person's employment status- so they can't have given the reason that your DP is working full time, I'm guessing it's a case that your DP is not in reciept of a qualifying benefit. If he is, and his grandmother is then of course an appeal would take this into consideration.

Also the funeral costs only fall to the person who signed the contract. What the decision will be is that it was "unreasonable" for your DP's brother to have taken responsibility, but in effect he didn't - their grandmother did so in any case he would not receive a funeral payment unless the bill had been novated, as he is not the "responsible person"

stargazeypie · 3 September 2009 at 5:31PM

Thanks Asknanswer,

What I still don't quite understand is that the grandmother, who did take responsibility for the costs, (reasonably I would have thought, as she was burying her child) is receiving a state pension. As far as I can see, that should have made her eligible. Or is it a case of 'oh, I spy a wage, never mind what it's already paying for, we'll have that'?

Is it that it it is perceived that only my dp, as the one who's earning, could reasonably be expected to take responisibilty? (His brother lived in his mother's home, and other than that, and the employment status, I see no difference in their obligations, financial or otherwise.)

It's ever so frustrating.

stargazeypie · 3 September 2009 at 5:35PM

Having read further, I see that that is pretty much exactly how it is. Should have left the country. Oh well.

SomeBozo · 3 September 2009 at 5:47PM

Should have left the country.

Why should you have left the country? To avoid the £2000 funeral costs?

So to be clear, you don't expect your earning partner to help you , ie :

I'm not expecting my dp to support me

But you expect the state to cover it?

So, no obligations on partner, but on the state?

Huh?

And you don't want to pay the £2000 costs and would prefer to leave the country.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but what kind of answer do you want?

Bozo

AsknAnswer · 3 September 2009 at 5:58PM

stargazeypie wrote: »

Thanks Asknanswer,

What I still don't quite understand is that the grandmother, who did take responsibility for the costs, (reasonably I would have thought, as she was burying her child) is receiving a state pension. As far as I can see, that should have made her eligible.

State pension is not a qualifying benefit. Pension Credit is, but not state pension.

For funeral payment purposes, the correct person to take responsibility would have been DP's brother (close relative test), but as I said he would need to be the one with the liability to the funeral director, and both DP's grandmother and your DP would need to be in receipt of a qualifying benefit, or belong within an excluded category. The other exclusion is estrangement but it's clear this isn't the case.

Oldernotwiser · 3 September 2009 at 6:50PM

stargazeypie wrote: »

Having read further, I see that that is pretty much exactly how it is. Should have left the country. Oh well.

Do you think they bury people for free in other countries?

whitewing · 3 September 2009 at 6:57PM

I feel a lot of sympathy for the OP. Funeral costs of any amount are expensive to be lumbered with. We're potentially going to be in the same situation with DH's mother. DH has discussed it with his MIL, and she is happy to put money aside for it, but neither of them seem capable of actually getting it all set up. I'm the bad guy for bringing it up. It really affects my relationship with MIL as I see her as a potential burden. Not very kind I know.

AsknAnswer · 3 September 2009 at 7:23PM

Funerals are often a common way for people to manipulate others. Funeral Directors to cash in. Local authorities cash in. Florists cash in. The absolute truth is that a lot of the expenses incurred are completely avoidable, but people who are in a vulnerable position often place trust in those who are there to help.

As an example, embalming is not a legal requirement, yet many people are led to believe it is. What embalming is, is an additional cost that is completely uneccessary. In addition, it is often the case that a person will take responsibility for a funeral, then decide they cannot fund it. They'll turn to a member of the family who they feel should fund it and tell them they have to pay it. They don't. The only person who has to pay it is the person who entered into a contract with the funeral director. Another point, is that to their own detriment, some smaller business funeral directors do not enter into a contract. No contract means that person cannot be legally pursued for the debt. Yet another point is that a funeral payment from the social fund is not a grant - it is fully recoverable if the DWP find the deceased had an estate. It used to be a grant, many years ago. In addition, a funeral payment does not fund all costs incurred, only those that the regulations deem "necessary" with a capped limit to all other funeral expenses incurred.

If no-one will take responsibility for a funeral, the environmental health department of the local authority have a legal obligation to organise a burial or a cremation.

A funeral director is not needed. A person can organise a funeral themselves, but some people think they HAVE to use a funeral director.

stargazeypie · 3 September 2009 at 11:45PM

Thanks for your answers. I'm sorry for the quip about leaving the country, I should have remembered that that would inevitably be taken seriously. I can assure you that it was not meant to be so, but this whole thing has been rather too serious throughout, resulting in the odd flippant comment from me. Even if not actually remotely funny.

Thank you for explaining the difference between the terms concerning pensions, it just isn't something that I've come across yet, only being in my early 20s.

The costs will be paid, of course they will be paid, just as unpaid leave was taken from work without question when she died, and as all these things are done as they must be done. But it will not be done without difficulty. Finding the money will be a struggle, and the whole thing and the way that it has dragged on has not been helpful to the bereaved family. Particularly the grandmother, who is very concerned about the money being owed to the funeral director for so long (I will add that I completely get where she is coming from.)

This is not, and has never been, about our avoiding responsibility, it is about clarifying that we have been treated fairly. Plainly, we have. It was also, as I said in my first post, about me venting my frustration in an environment that does not hurt the people I care about.

Thank you Whitewing, really, thank you. I so appreciated your kind reply. I agree, some of what we feel in these situations isn't particularly admirable, but that's because they are a complete nightmare. I don't know what to suggest, it's so tricky. Best of luck, and it's probably not worth allowing it to sour the relationship. (I'm glad I didn't realise all this when not-quite-mother-in-law was alive though!)

Oh, and some Bozo, I'm not expecting my partner to support me because I anticipate living off my own (earned) savings while necessary and getting a job. Obligations on me. Hope that helps.

Funeral Costs

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