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OU proposing to withdraw Science Degrees and summer schools

I just read a few OU forums that the OU is proposing to withdrawal Science named degrees and science summer schools to save money.

Whether you are affected or not but value the work that the OU does in allowing people of all ages and from all backgrounds to study for degrees please can you email the new Vice Chancellor by 1st October and tell him your opinion. His name is Martin Bean (mgb288). As we are not allowed to post email addresses I suggest you go to the OU forums and get it if you can't work it out from the information I posted in brackets.

As a last resort you can PM me however I'm only on here on the evenings and not every evening.
I'm not cynical I'm realistic :p

(If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)

Comments

  • CIS
    CIS Posts: 12,260 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Which OU forums have been discussing this ?
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a specialist Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
  • olly300
    olly300 Posts: 14,738 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    CIS wrote: »
    Which OU forums have been discussing this ?

    On firstclass a message has been posted on the science forums and some of the social science forums.

    More information has been posted on the science forums.
    I'm not cynical I'm realistic :p

    (If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)
  • CIS
    CIS Posts: 12,260 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    From the OU (Is this the same post you were reading ).

    I would have seen this earlier but for some reason it didn't make it to my course forum and we have not been made aware of it until you posted,
    Overview

    The stimulus for this move to change is the Government’s decision to withdraw funding for students studying for equivalent or lower qualifications (ELQs), and also the recent announcement of grant reductions for next year.

    The effect of the cuts will be that the Faculty will have to reduce its staff budget, making it impossible to maintain the size of the curriculum that we currently support. We are, therefore, undertaking a fundamental review with the intention of developing proposals that will see a reduction in the size of the curriculum while maintaining its relevance and attractiveness to existing and future science students. We are very well aware of the obligation we have to existing students in ensuring that they are not disadvantaged by any proposed changes, not least being the need to give appropriate notice concerning (a) the intention to withdraw any course before its planned expiry date and (b) any proposed changes to the Science qualification structure. We will, of course, give students the maximum possible notice of change to minimise any disruption to individual study plans.

    It is important to note that no decisions for change have yet been made. The discussions that have taken place in the Faculty have not yet reached the point where there is a specific curriculum plan on which to invite comment. However, there is a new curriculum framework that is emerging, within which it is proposed a new science curriculum will be presented. This curriculum framework is based on a single BSc (Honours) qualification in which it will continue to be possible to study the science subjects referenced in the OU undergraduate prospectus.

    Considerable attention has been paid to the way the new curriculum will provide learning opportunities in practical science. The main driver for this is that the current residential school programme represents a huge drain on Faculty budgets, such that we are actively exploring highly innovative alternative means of providing practical skills commensurate with the science degree programme.


    A more detailed look at the proposals

    After many years of offering only a BA (Open) degree – to which a BSc (Open) degree was eventually added in response to student demand – the Open University introduced the BSc (Hons) Natural Sciences degree in 2000 to be joined in 2003 by a suite of specialist named degrees (Geosciences, Life Sciences, etc.). In order to meet national subject benchmarking for these specialist named degrees, the Faculty of Science has had to maintain a number of relatively low-population courses that make very significant financial losses. Prominent among these are our residential school (SXR) courses.

    Since their introduction, the take up of our specialist degrees has been very disappointing. Considerably fewer than 10% of the students who embark on Science’s Level 1 courses end up graduating with any of our named degrees. Furthermore, the number of students graduating with a named degree in science has actually fallen (by about 1/3rd) during the past 2 years.

    The March meeting of Science Faculty Committee (on which both students and Associate Lecturers are represented) therefore overwhelmingly decided on a phased withdrawal of our current suite of named degrees, and their replacement by a single, more generic, named degree (the name of which has not been decided, but possible candidates include Science, Natural Science and Natural Sciences). This would give the Faculty the flexibility it needs to respond much more quickly to changing financial and educational circumstances – by withdrawing from some subjects if necessary but also by expanding other subjects (or even offering new ones) to meet changes in demand.

    There would be distinct, recommended, ‘strands’ through our new single degree, some of which would doubtless not be dissimilar to the various science subjects with which we are all familiar. There would also be coherent ‘strands’ that emphasise interdisciplinarity rather than specialisation. It would be possible for students to take a more ‘pick and mix’ approach – provided they follow a route that gives appropriate preparation from one level to the next. The transcripts that come with degree certificates – which are becoming far more important in higher education generally than the particular name that a degree happens to carry – will make it clear to employers and to others precisely which areas of science a graduate has studied.

    There is no question of the Open University withdrawing all practical work in science. (For a start, there is far more practical work in so-called ‘theory’ courses than many people realise.) What we will be doing is seeking methods of offering laboratory and field work in much more cost-effective ways, and we are also planning to make innovative use of ICT, immersive technologies, etc. to bring a whole new dimension to students’ practical experience in OU Science.

    Once agreement has been reached on the structure of the BSc, we will design appropriate sub‑degree qualifications, such as Certificates and Diplomas in Higher Education.

    The Faculty will continue to develop ELQ-exempt Foundation Degrees (currently, Paramedic Sciences (G11), Health Sciences (G12), Operating Department Practice (G19) and Analytical Sciences (G15)) based largely on existing ‘theory’ courses and specially written work‑based learning courses. We will also continue to offer a range of named MSc degrees and, indeed, aim to develop several new ones. The latter is possible because the vast majority of students taking MSc degrees will not be affected by the ELQ funding arrangements.

    What then of our current undergraduate degrees? These will certainly not be withdrawn immediately. Students already studying towards these degrees will be able to complete them while the constituent courses are still in place. In practice this means that there will be no significant change for continuing students until 2012 – though students will if they wish be able to ‘swap’ to the new degree once this has been launched.

    I hope that this has explained the situation sufficiently and will allay any concerns that students might have about their future studies. There will be more news posted on the details of the new degree as soon as these have been agreed.

    As you will realise, this planning process is far from complete, and indeed we are awaiting a comprehensive marketing review of opportunities before making any final decisions. For practical reasons I’m sorry that we won’t be able to respond to students individually, but if you would like to contribute your views to these discussions – particularly your preference for the name of the proposed single BSc (Hons) degree

    It appears that they are going to remove many of the named degrees and amalgamate them in to the Open Degree course however I would be more worried about which subject areas are no longer going to covered - it seems that there is more to this than just removing the named degree courses.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a specialist Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
  • CIS wrote: »


    It appears that they are going to remove many of the named degrees and amalgamate them in to the Open Degree course however I would be more worried about which subject areas are no longer going to covered - it seems that there is more to this than just removing the named degree courses.

    Unfortunately the OU, like any educational establishment, can't run courses with only a small number of students. Science (particularly Chemistry) departments are being slimmed down throughout the sector.
  • CIS
    CIS Posts: 12,260 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Unfortunately you are right but its a pity especially after all the hard work they have put in over the last 40 years to get the uni where it is now. In some ways I'm glad that my degree is almost complete
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a specialist Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
  • CIS wrote: »
    Unfortunately you are right but its a pity especially after all the hard work they have put in over the last 40 years to get the uni where it is now. In some ways I'm glad that my degree is almost complete

    Oh I agree it's a pity right enough.

    However, I suppose the OU has to move with the times, just as it's moving towards a traditional academic year and away from it's usual February - October year. This used to suit OU students but now it's inappropriate for many people.
  • Thats quite sad really, I currently have one of their tailor made Open degrees on hold (as it allows me to transfer study from elsewhere with the exception of level 3).

    The thing is, is that so much can rely on your degree title when getting attention on a job application when there is no space to give details of modules undertaken e.g. BSc Molecular science would stand out much more than BSc Natural sciences when applying for a organic chemists job.

    It was inevitable that the OU would be one of the institutions that would be most affected by the withdrawal of funding for ELQs due to the nature of the student (e.g. part time, retraining for new careers or just out of interest or for a hobby) and the OU actively encouraged people to protest against the move at the time.
    :kisses2: Got married September 2011:smileyhea

  • celyn90
    celyn90 Posts: 3,249 Forumite
    To be fair, the OU is suffering from exactly the same problem other universities have - that there isn't the uptake for traditional sciences any more. It is not cost effective for any establishment to run courses which noone wants to study :( It is sad :(
    The thing is, is that so much can rely on your degree title when getting attention on a job application when there is no space to give details of modules undertaken e.g. BSc Molecular science would stand out much more than BSc Natural sciences when applying for a organic chemists job.

    I disagree. I think you would be far better off saying natural sciences than molecular sciences to be honest as most employers would associate natural sciences with (primarily) chemistry plus either some biology or some physics depending on the specialism. There is nothing stopping you being more specific about the modules you have taken on your CV, or at the very least stating the areas you have studied. A very specific degree title is a disadvantage and "molecular sciences" is a very strange and non-classical description.
    :staradmin:starmod: beware of geeks bearing .gifs...:starmod::staradmin
    :starmod: Whoever said "nothing is impossible" obviously never tried to nail jelly to a tree :starmod:
  • Oldernotwiser
    Oldernotwiser Posts: 37,425 Forumite
    My husband was an OU student just after it started and he tells me that originally all OU degrees were BAs (yes, even the sciences!) and they were in very broad subject areas, eg. BA Humanities, BA Social Science.
  • olly300
    olly300 Posts: 14,738 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker

    The thing is, is that so much can rely on your degree title when getting attention on a job application when there is no space to give details of modules undertaken e.g. BSc Molecular science would stand out much more than BSc Natural sciences when applying for a organic chemists job.
    Not any more you can't.

    Due to the combinations and permutations of Degrees out there, you have to clearly define what your Degree(s) actually covered on applications.

    And many application forms now ask the names of modules taken and the grade achieved.

    This is why some employers specifically only recruit from some universities (and that includes new universities in my experience) because they know what the subjects degrees in that one specific department cover.
    I'm not cynical I'm realistic :p

    (If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)
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