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Help/Advice needed regarding sudden 'Notice To Quit' without warning etc
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All_That_Glitters_2
Posts: 14 Forumite
Hi everyone,
Firstly, my apologies for the extra long post but I felt I really needed to explain my case, as in-depth as possible, with as much information as I can in the hope that it can help any people who reply to help me with answers to this predicament.
I'd really appreciate any help or advice on where I stand legally with this. I am going to see a Solicitor on Monday (as it's now the weekend) and I am so uneasy about this and waiting that I'd really like some advice or comments of other peoples experiences regarding this matter I'm currently dealing with.
I was given supported housing in April 2007 following various medical/hospital problems and severe depression and anxiety-related issues. For the first year I had weekly support visits from a support worker and regular contact with my council, who the tenancy was with via Housing Benefit and support.
As confirmed by all the people I spoke to at the council my tenancy was perfect, I am a very quiet and considerate tenant. Due to my depression I keep myself to myself a lot and because of social-phobia and other medical issues I don't tend to go out a lot and I generally like to live quietly and privately so I have never been a nuisance, always paid my bills on time and that is something the Council were more than keen to point out that they'd noticed in my first year of living there.
After a year of living there on a supported tenancy I was given a secure tenancy where the support was removed and I was left to live there independently without weekly visits and only with the support of my counsellor and family.
I have a neighbour below me who is a middle-aged woman who lives on her own (with her dog) and as time has gone on she has made it increasingly difficult for me. When I moved in she complained to me about the girl who used to live in my place before me and at that time I thought maybe said girl had been a nuisance but from my experience of living next to this woman I have come to the conclusion that she would have found something to complain about even if Mother Teresa was living there, she really is that difficult.
The main problems started with the main security door, which she kept wedging open for her dog to go out into the garden. Rather than just do this when the dog goes out she leaves it wedged open all day long, which defeats the object of it being a 'Security Door' as anyone can walk in. Another woman who lives below and is good friends with the aforementioned nightmare neighbour has health/weight problems and started to claim the door was left open for her. Whilst I understood shouldn't that then be a matter for her to take up with the council for them to rectify an easy access for her rather than the neighbours taking it upon themselves to breach the property terms and conditions by wedging a security door open?
I would sometimes come back from visiting my mother and handicapped brother at night to find the security door was still wedged open. I complained about this numerous times to the council and nothing was done. I was told she was given a verbal warning and when it continued they said there was nothing else they could do! How about putting an alarm on the door so if left open for long periods it goes off? Either way, leaving it so she can just do what she wants and wedging it open at all hours just breaches security and she seems to forget that there are four people living in our block and that security door is there for all of us, not just her and her dog. With my anxiety and social-phobia it made my stress levels rise with the door being left open constantly and to make matters even worse, on occasions, when someone was coming to visit me and pressed the main buzzer rather than me letting them in the said neighbour would open the door for them herself which left me very stressed if I didn't want visitors or people knocking on my door. I was sure she was doing it to upset me and I was right, as I'll explain.
She then has the audacity to put a handwritten 'Please close doors quietly when leaving or entering'. I couldn't believe the nerve considering this is the woman who breaches terms by wedging the doors open all the time. I spoke to the council about this several times, emails, calls, calls via my support worker, reports of the behaviour and.... nothing was done.
Aside from this, the nightmare neighbour below me, kept trying to make my life hell by controlling whatever I did. On one occassion she told me not to have baths after 9pm because it kept her awake and kept informing me that should could hear my bathroom light being turned on or when I opened a cupboard - quite strange stuff. I could also hear her lights going on and off and her doors opening and her dog barking at every hour of the morning...I'd never complained to her about that though. This is down to the sound-proofing of the flat not me. I was finding myself walking on tip-toe trying not to make noise even by walking from room to room. Every time I turned a tap on I was aware she'd be listening and it made my stress levels rise. I often would cry myself to sleep or go very quiet and want to be alone. It certainly didn't help my depression. I am a very quiet person and essentially she couldn't have had a more perfect neighbour but because I'm young it seemed she was intent on trying to intimidate me.
On one occasion I had my boyfriend stay the night and he went to the toilet in the night (which was about a couple of steps from the bedroom) and all of the sudden in my neighbours place below I could hear banging of doors, the dog barking and I honestly thought something serious was happening like someone had broken in or a fire. All of a sudden there was a loud bang on my front door. I got out of bed to find my neighbour standing there in her dressing gown saying "Do you think you could let me get some sleep? I can hear you crashing around and everything up here". I said to her that we were in bed and she had the audacity to say "So why is your light on?" to which I responded "Firstly, what business is it of yours what lights I have on and secondly they are on because I just came to answer the door to you, hammering on it at this time of night!!". She then had the cheek to say to me "It's half past ten, you should be in bed!". No, this was not my mother, shockingly it was my neighbour. I couldn't believe the nerve of it. I simply said "I live above you not with you now stop harassing me!!" and I closed the door. I broke down in tears and my boyfriend was furious. He hadn't said anything because he didn't want to make it worse for me and he knows I hate confrontations and he knew that neighbour was doing her best to make my life hell.
After a while of complaining endlessly to the council about the door and the harassment and getting no help in return I wrote a note saying "Four people live in this block and this security door is here for a purpose. Wedging it open renders the 'security' useless. Please keep closed when not coming in and out". The next day I opened my door to find she'd torn the note down and thrown it at my door. I couldn't believe it considering she had the nerve to stick up a note saying to 'Close Doors Quietly'.
As time went on the stress levels and depression got worse. I was seeing a counsellor a lot and noticed I wasn't eating well and withdrew into myself a lot. My mother has had some very serious respiratory and health problems in the last few years and I often went to visit her and also help look after my handicapped brother who is 27 with downs syndrome. Also, on occasions I'd stay at my boyfriends on weekends, like most couples do, and it also helped me escape my horrible neighbour. I was often at my flat but had my blinds closed or stayed in when there to keep myself to myself.
The other day I had a letter of 'Notice To Quit' from the council with them saying I wasn't using the property as my main home and therefore had breached my tenancy and they wanted back possession of my property. This was dated February 15th and the date to give up on or before was for March 22nd 2010. I had no warning, no letters and nobody came to check up on me to clarify my tenancy was not being breached before they reached this decision. If people I don't know knock on my door I generally wont answer it so if they came to visit me they should have sent letters beforehand to state they'd be coming to visit as they are more than aware of my depression issues and social-phobia and that I wont answer the door to people I don't know. Short of them sitting outside my flat for days and weeks (which doesn't seem plausible) I don't see how they are coming to this conclusion. If this is based on me having few lights on or my curtains closed or not leaving or coming much it's because when I'm there, because of my nuisance neighbour I like to keep quiet and I don't like having all my lights on, to save on bills and for privacy and I also, as previously mentioned, often keep my blinds/curtains closed. They can't just assume from this that I've not been living there when I have. And to send this 'Notice To Quit' without any warning or mention that they were concerned about my tenancy is disgusting behaviour and also very damaging for me as someone who deals with serious depression issues. It made me very ill and near suicidal when I got the letter and I'm absolutely furious that they could do this.
I'm on housing benefit and my rent is paid directly from them to the council (my landlords) so i'm in no arrears with that. I pay my bills on time and even have a high-speed broadband connection and landline installed that I pay over £30 a month for. If I wasn't living there wouldn't I have cancelled that? Why would I happily waste money if I'm not there, like they claim. I am there, I'm just very quiet and keep myself to myself. They can't just assume I'm not there because I'm quiet - surely?
The council know very well that I have depression and anxiety related issues and to land this on someone with such emotional and psychological difficulties is extremely unprofessional and insensitive. What happened to them taking action against the neighbour who persistently breached terms by wedging the security door open? Why was that ignored when there has been sufficient evidence to back it up, it's been witnessed by various housing officers and council officials (who've had to close it themselves) and there has been numerous complaints about it? None of it makes sense.
I'm now in a situation where I have to go see a solicitor on Monday and get legal aid regarding this and I'm scared and wondering what the outcome will be. Surely they can't do this to me when I've been such a good tenant and they are basing this on very water-thin beliefs of me not being there when I am? I'm also sure it's my nightmare neighbour who has instigated all this. She is known for being a trouble-maker. What makes me laugh is how she complains if I turn so much as a tap on but when I'm ultra quiet (which, you'd assume she'd like) she then reports me for abandoning my property when I'm not.
The solicitors will then hopefully sort all this out with legal aid from Monday but I'm still concerned about the outcome. I haven't abandoned my place at all and it's worrying me why they have come to this decision. Does this mean they are going to try and fine me for housing benefit they deem I should pay back when they wrongly assumed I wasn't there? I'm on benefits so I can't afford that. Does this mean my housing benefit will be stopped and does it mean I will never be able to get housing benefit again?
Where do I stand on this and does anyone else agree this is out of line for them. Additionally, has anyone else ever experienced any of the same dilemmas in the same or similar situation? What was the outcome, if so?
My Mother is currently in hospital and I'm going through a very tough time personally and this 'Notice To Quit' has made me extremely ill and for them to send it with no prior warning or word that they were concerned about breach of my tenancy makes me so angry. Am I in a position to take action against the council for undue stress caused and claim for some compensation? What this has done to me defies belief, I'm so upset and scared. I'm a very timid and quiet person and this really is making me quite ill and the Council are responsible for this and also for not responding to complaints (in abundance) of my nuisance neighbour. In my eyes they have failed on many counts.
I would sincerely appreciate any help and advice with this.
Regards,
Katie
Firstly, my apologies for the extra long post but I felt I really needed to explain my case, as in-depth as possible, with as much information as I can in the hope that it can help any people who reply to help me with answers to this predicament.
I'd really appreciate any help or advice on where I stand legally with this. I am going to see a Solicitor on Monday (as it's now the weekend) and I am so uneasy about this and waiting that I'd really like some advice or comments of other peoples experiences regarding this matter I'm currently dealing with.
I was given supported housing in April 2007 following various medical/hospital problems and severe depression and anxiety-related issues. For the first year I had weekly support visits from a support worker and regular contact with my council, who the tenancy was with via Housing Benefit and support.
As confirmed by all the people I spoke to at the council my tenancy was perfect, I am a very quiet and considerate tenant. Due to my depression I keep myself to myself a lot and because of social-phobia and other medical issues I don't tend to go out a lot and I generally like to live quietly and privately so I have never been a nuisance, always paid my bills on time and that is something the Council were more than keen to point out that they'd noticed in my first year of living there.
After a year of living there on a supported tenancy I was given a secure tenancy where the support was removed and I was left to live there independently without weekly visits and only with the support of my counsellor and family.
I have a neighbour below me who is a middle-aged woman who lives on her own (with her dog) and as time has gone on she has made it increasingly difficult for me. When I moved in she complained to me about the girl who used to live in my place before me and at that time I thought maybe said girl had been a nuisance but from my experience of living next to this woman I have come to the conclusion that she would have found something to complain about even if Mother Teresa was living there, she really is that difficult.
The main problems started with the main security door, which she kept wedging open for her dog to go out into the garden. Rather than just do this when the dog goes out she leaves it wedged open all day long, which defeats the object of it being a 'Security Door' as anyone can walk in. Another woman who lives below and is good friends with the aforementioned nightmare neighbour has health/weight problems and started to claim the door was left open for her. Whilst I understood shouldn't that then be a matter for her to take up with the council for them to rectify an easy access for her rather than the neighbours taking it upon themselves to breach the property terms and conditions by wedging a security door open?
I would sometimes come back from visiting my mother and handicapped brother at night to find the security door was still wedged open. I complained about this numerous times to the council and nothing was done. I was told she was given a verbal warning and when it continued they said there was nothing else they could do! How about putting an alarm on the door so if left open for long periods it goes off? Either way, leaving it so she can just do what she wants and wedging it open at all hours just breaches security and she seems to forget that there are four people living in our block and that security door is there for all of us, not just her and her dog. With my anxiety and social-phobia it made my stress levels rise with the door being left open constantly and to make matters even worse, on occasions, when someone was coming to visit me and pressed the main buzzer rather than me letting them in the said neighbour would open the door for them herself which left me very stressed if I didn't want visitors or people knocking on my door. I was sure she was doing it to upset me and I was right, as I'll explain.
She then has the audacity to put a handwritten 'Please close doors quietly when leaving or entering'. I couldn't believe the nerve considering this is the woman who breaches terms by wedging the doors open all the time. I spoke to the council about this several times, emails, calls, calls via my support worker, reports of the behaviour and.... nothing was done.
Aside from this, the nightmare neighbour below me, kept trying to make my life hell by controlling whatever I did. On one occassion she told me not to have baths after 9pm because it kept her awake and kept informing me that should could hear my bathroom light being turned on or when I opened a cupboard - quite strange stuff. I could also hear her lights going on and off and her doors opening and her dog barking at every hour of the morning...I'd never complained to her about that though. This is down to the sound-proofing of the flat not me. I was finding myself walking on tip-toe trying not to make noise even by walking from room to room. Every time I turned a tap on I was aware she'd be listening and it made my stress levels rise. I often would cry myself to sleep or go very quiet and want to be alone. It certainly didn't help my depression. I am a very quiet person and essentially she couldn't have had a more perfect neighbour but because I'm young it seemed she was intent on trying to intimidate me.
On one occasion I had my boyfriend stay the night and he went to the toilet in the night (which was about a couple of steps from the bedroom) and all of the sudden in my neighbours place below I could hear banging of doors, the dog barking and I honestly thought something serious was happening like someone had broken in or a fire. All of a sudden there was a loud bang on my front door. I got out of bed to find my neighbour standing there in her dressing gown saying "Do you think you could let me get some sleep? I can hear you crashing around and everything up here". I said to her that we were in bed and she had the audacity to say "So why is your light on?" to which I responded "Firstly, what business is it of yours what lights I have on and secondly they are on because I just came to answer the door to you, hammering on it at this time of night!!". She then had the cheek to say to me "It's half past ten, you should be in bed!". No, this was not my mother, shockingly it was my neighbour. I couldn't believe the nerve of it. I simply said "I live above you not with you now stop harassing me!!" and I closed the door. I broke down in tears and my boyfriend was furious. He hadn't said anything because he didn't want to make it worse for me and he knows I hate confrontations and he knew that neighbour was doing her best to make my life hell.
After a while of complaining endlessly to the council about the door and the harassment and getting no help in return I wrote a note saying "Four people live in this block and this security door is here for a purpose. Wedging it open renders the 'security' useless. Please keep closed when not coming in and out". The next day I opened my door to find she'd torn the note down and thrown it at my door. I couldn't believe it considering she had the nerve to stick up a note saying to 'Close Doors Quietly'.
As time went on the stress levels and depression got worse. I was seeing a counsellor a lot and noticed I wasn't eating well and withdrew into myself a lot. My mother has had some very serious respiratory and health problems in the last few years and I often went to visit her and also help look after my handicapped brother who is 27 with downs syndrome. Also, on occasions I'd stay at my boyfriends on weekends, like most couples do, and it also helped me escape my horrible neighbour. I was often at my flat but had my blinds closed or stayed in when there to keep myself to myself.
The other day I had a letter of 'Notice To Quit' from the council with them saying I wasn't using the property as my main home and therefore had breached my tenancy and they wanted back possession of my property. This was dated February 15th and the date to give up on or before was for March 22nd 2010. I had no warning, no letters and nobody came to check up on me to clarify my tenancy was not being breached before they reached this decision. If people I don't know knock on my door I generally wont answer it so if they came to visit me they should have sent letters beforehand to state they'd be coming to visit as they are more than aware of my depression issues and social-phobia and that I wont answer the door to people I don't know. Short of them sitting outside my flat for days and weeks (which doesn't seem plausible) I don't see how they are coming to this conclusion. If this is based on me having few lights on or my curtains closed or not leaving or coming much it's because when I'm there, because of my nuisance neighbour I like to keep quiet and I don't like having all my lights on, to save on bills and for privacy and I also, as previously mentioned, often keep my blinds/curtains closed. They can't just assume from this that I've not been living there when I have. And to send this 'Notice To Quit' without any warning or mention that they were concerned about my tenancy is disgusting behaviour and also very damaging for me as someone who deals with serious depression issues. It made me very ill and near suicidal when I got the letter and I'm absolutely furious that they could do this.
I'm on housing benefit and my rent is paid directly from them to the council (my landlords) so i'm in no arrears with that. I pay my bills on time and even have a high-speed broadband connection and landline installed that I pay over £30 a month for. If I wasn't living there wouldn't I have cancelled that? Why would I happily waste money if I'm not there, like they claim. I am there, I'm just very quiet and keep myself to myself. They can't just assume I'm not there because I'm quiet - surely?
The council know very well that I have depression and anxiety related issues and to land this on someone with such emotional and psychological difficulties is extremely unprofessional and insensitive. What happened to them taking action against the neighbour who persistently breached terms by wedging the security door open? Why was that ignored when there has been sufficient evidence to back it up, it's been witnessed by various housing officers and council officials (who've had to close it themselves) and there has been numerous complaints about it? None of it makes sense.
I'm now in a situation where I have to go see a solicitor on Monday and get legal aid regarding this and I'm scared and wondering what the outcome will be. Surely they can't do this to me when I've been such a good tenant and they are basing this on very water-thin beliefs of me not being there when I am? I'm also sure it's my nightmare neighbour who has instigated all this. She is known for being a trouble-maker. What makes me laugh is how she complains if I turn so much as a tap on but when I'm ultra quiet (which, you'd assume she'd like) she then reports me for abandoning my property when I'm not.
The solicitors will then hopefully sort all this out with legal aid from Monday but I'm still concerned about the outcome. I haven't abandoned my place at all and it's worrying me why they have come to this decision. Does this mean they are going to try and fine me for housing benefit they deem I should pay back when they wrongly assumed I wasn't there? I'm on benefits so I can't afford that. Does this mean my housing benefit will be stopped and does it mean I will never be able to get housing benefit again?
Where do I stand on this and does anyone else agree this is out of line for them. Additionally, has anyone else ever experienced any of the same dilemmas in the same or similar situation? What was the outcome, if so?
My Mother is currently in hospital and I'm going through a very tough time personally and this 'Notice To Quit' has made me extremely ill and for them to send it with no prior warning or word that they were concerned about breach of my tenancy makes me so angry. Am I in a position to take action against the council for undue stress caused and claim for some compensation? What this has done to me defies belief, I'm so upset and scared. I'm a very timid and quiet person and this really is making me quite ill and the Council are responsible for this and also for not responding to complaints (in abundance) of my nuisance neighbour. In my eyes they have failed on many counts.
I would sincerely appreciate any help and advice with this.
Regards,
Katie

0
Comments
-
Ask Shelter to support your defence of the allegation that it isn't your primary residence. Remember the council have to prove the breach.
Ask Shelter for advice on whether you can get compensation, though as a council has an obligation to ensure its tenants adhere to their contracts and they aren't actually harassing you but going through a legal process, I'm not too clear on why you expect compensation.0 -
Ask Shelter for advice on whether you can get compensation, though as a council has an obligation to ensure its tenants adhere to their contracts and they aren't actually harassing you but going through a legal process, I'm not too clear on why you expect compensation.
I'm not especially asking that, just asking where I stand because they know I have depression issues and to land something like this on me with no warning is incredibly irresponsible and it's not like they've tried to rectify any perceived breaches beforehand, which would have been far more logical. Obviously, because I was doing nothing wrong I was never expecting this 'Notice To Quit' letter and when it arrived I was dumbfounded and very upset and I'm livid that they can do this. It's ridiculous.0 -
In view of the "Neighbour From Hell" situation, I would see this as a gift and move on rather than fight it. It may be unjust and unfair but living there is making you ill, fighting will make things worse and really you want to be living somewhere else anyway.
Something I have learned as I have got older is you have to choose your battles carefully and only go into a fight when there is a decent chance of winning and what you win will be worth it. I cannot see you winning this one because even if you win legally and get to stay you are still stuck with not one but two hellish neighbours.
Move on dear; save your strength and your resources for finding somewhere new to live and let this go, it will not do you any good in the long run.0 -
I'm not sure its feasible for a social landlord to tailor their approach for each individual tenants circumstances. Its actually the will of social housing tenants that demand that the landlord take strict actions against others for breaching their tenancy agreements - they aren't harsh for harsh's sake but because tenants want them to take action against those abusing the privilege of a secure life long tenancy with cheap rent.
Time will tell whether they tried to communicate to you via phone, letter or at the door and these comms were not successful or were clumsy and breached procedures. The council should have a complaints body where you can raise your objections to their approach and hopefully they can improve their service from the feedback you provide.
You will find Shelter an excellent source of information, support and advice. It is extremely difficult for social housing landlords to evict someone with a secure tenancy and though it it is a shock to you because you are innocent of the allegation, you should put your immediate energy into defending the eviction case. As I've said before, the council must prove their case - a judge will not award possession back to them on hearsay and rumour.0 -
QueenOfTheDesert wrote: »In view of the "Neighbour From Hell" situation, I would see this as a gift and move on rather than fight it. It may be unjust and unfair but living there is making you ill, fighting will make things worse and really you want to be living somewhere else anyway.
Something I have learned as I have got older is you have to choose your battles carefully and only go into a fight when there is a decent chance of winning and what you win will be worth it. I cannot see you winning this one because even if you win legally and get to stay you are still stuck with not one but two hellish neighbours.
Move on dear; save your strength and your resources for finding somewhere new to live and let this go, it will not do you any good in the long run.
Thanks so much and, yes, you are so right. If I win and get to keep the place I am still going to be having the stress of living next to one of Satan's spawn in the form of my neighbour, so, as you say, I should really look at this as a perfect opportunity to move on to a better life.
Thanks for your reply.
Katie x0 -
I'm not sure its feasible for a social landlord to tailor their approach for each individual tenants circumstances. Its actually the will of social housing tenants that demand that the landlord take strict actions against others for breaching their tenancy agreements - they aren't harsh for harsh's sake but because tenants want them to take action against those abusing the privilege of a secure life long tenancy with cheap rent.
Time will tell whether they tried to communicate to you via phone, letter or at the door and these comms were not successful or were clumsy and breached procedures. The council should have a complaints body where you can raise your objections to their approach and hopefully they can improve their service from the feedback you provide.
You will find Shelter an excellent source of information, support and advice. It is extremely difficult for social housing landlords to evict someone with a secure tenancy and though it it is a shock to you because you are innocent of the allegation, you should put your immediate energy into defending the eviction case. As I've said before, the council must prove their case - a judge will not award possession back to them on hearsay and rumour.
Thanks for your reply and advice.
x0 -
I think you should go find a civilised place to live. The council is unwittingly doing you a favour.
My ex girlfriend lived above a very sensitive professional tenant who couldn't take footsteps, music, TV. At first she would knock on the door and tell my ex to keep her kids quiet, later she would bang on her ceiling. They were noisy but no more than other children plus they were in bed by 8pm. This drove my ex to depression (she is already prone to depression) but managed to leave a few months earlier than rental agreement stipulated.
Now my ex is really happy as the place she has found is perfect.
Good Luck0 -
lightSwitch wrote: »I think you should go find a civilised place to live. The council is unwittingly doing you a favour.
My ex girlfriend lived above a very sensitive professional tenant who couldn't take footsteps, music, TV. At first she would knock on the door and tell my ex to keep her kids quiet, later she would bang on her ceiling. They were noisy but no more than other children plus they were in bed by 8pm. This drove my ex to depression (she is already prone to depression) but managed to leave a few months earlier than rental agreement stipulated.
Now my ex is really happy as the place she has found is perfect.
Good Luck
Thank you so much for your advice and reply.
x0 -
Quick observation. I would have thought that there would be a procedure to appeal against Notice to Quit on these grounds - or there would have been an accusation with a chance for you to put a defence. So, have you missed any post? Has your post been tampered with?
Suggest you check with the Landlord.Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam0 -
Notice to quit is just a formality the council have to go through if they believe you are not residing at the property, it has to be done properly. All it takes is an allegation from a neighbour & they serve the notice as a matter of course, you then need to contact them to find out why they have served the notice. It doesn't necessarily mean they are throwing you out full stop so you need to discuss it with your housing officer to find out what is going on.
It's not personal - anyone can get one, unfortunately your personal & emotional issues don't influence when or how it is issued. As others have said you could look at this as a blessing to get away from this neighbour but you could also use it to your advantage by telling the council that you were too scared to stay there by yourself because of the severe bullying & harassment your neighbour is subjecting you to.
You never know, it might just be what you needed to get something done about her unacceptable behaviour. I think you may have unwittingly allowed yourself to be drawn in to her games by reducing yourself to her level by sticking notes up, try and avoid anything like that because it will only prolong the hostility & look like you are retaliating.0
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