money from accident

victoriav · 22 April 2006 at 4:35PM

I was runover and had my legs, back and pelvis broken, also various other serious injuries. I am left disabled. I finally received the compensation. The accident was about 3 years ago, I live alone, I eventually got dla (after 3 appeals and then additionally IS after 3 more appeals) This was fine, several dwp doctor visits too. I also got CT benefit. Along the way there have been lots of dss muck ups with my money, maladministration, etc , kept getting the regular checks asked to confirm, re-confirm, re-confirm, etc etc.

Then last week I was told I was being investigated for fraud, by the dwp, because they say I got my accident money. This is quite right. It was all used for a new roof as mine caved in and there was no electric and water came through and ruined everything. It is a really old house owned by parents who live elsewhere, it is my responsibility as I live in it, which is fair enough. It is not like I have bought a yacht, holidays in peurto banus, racehorses, appartments, porsche, clothes, luxuries - no it had to be spent to keep the roof above my head. I kept all receipts of all work and still owe a few thousand as it didn't cover it which I will go to money lenders for - as usual - I know it wont be forthcoming from the social....

Now the dss want to prosecute me and say that I did not declare the money and I have to pay back every penny of benefits from my accident date. Surely this cannot be right? They have stopped all money to me - I have nothing (doesn't the law state one must have x amount to live on - I read this on the letters they send) - so their action, this is a direct contradiction of the law then is it not?

a) If they say I must pay all benefits money back - during this time, then what did they expect me to live on all this time, and now they have stopped it what am I now expected to subsequently live on?
b) Is there an upper limit of £16 thousand 'savings' allowed for IS
which is means tested in any case?- and I know that DLA isnt means tested.
c) Doesn't the 'savings' rule apply to the 'unemployed'? I am not the unemployed I am the disabled (though none of the money is left anyway)
d) How can 'compensation' be classed as 'earnings'? What rule do the dss use to arive at this?

I have tried solicitors - none specialise in this subject where I am, and CAB is shortstaffed and not clued up with this either. So no joy there. Infact CAB helpfully said I would be looking at a prison sentence...

I can't quite believe the lack of answers and the way the dss are getting away with clearly underhand tactics with no one to challenge it, one lawyer told me to go look at statutory instruments books. I think someone must know what I could do but I don't know who to ask, somebody suggested on here? so here's hoping someone can advise me please....

CIS · 22 April 2006 at 5:02PM

It sounds right, if you receive benefits for an accident that you later receivce compensation for, the money is recovered from the compensation payment.

But, the money is usually deducted at source by the DWP notifying the compensation payer of how much money is to be deducted, you may be able to argue that you thought that the money had been deducted when you got the payment.

Compensation recovery is handled by the Compensation Recovery Unit based at Washington, have a read of their website, it may help clear up a few points and give you an idea how to proceed.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/cru/

Additionally,I believe that the amount of money paid, after deductions is classed as
savings and benefits reduced accordingly.

ohreally · 22 April 2006 at 6:37PM

You need competent legal advice to protect your interests. I am not qualified to advise on your predicament, however it appears to have the potential to have serious consequenses.Did you withhold declaring the extent of your finances to the DWP's or were you open and honest about it all?

pondie1 · 22 April 2006 at 7:37PM

in 1992 myhusband had a slip at work from a leaking machine,the union solicitor said he would only try for 2,500 as any more than that and my husband would have to repay all benefits paid to him,probably owing more than he received,the £2,500 was paid and we had a family holiday and he kept his benefits,the solicitor told us this from day one so we knew where we stood!

Ted_Hutchinson · 22 April 2006 at 8:27PM

Usually the Compensation Recovery Unit have their hands in the compensation even before the solicitor handling the case. It follows that usually there isn't the opportunity for fraud. It would be helpful to know when the payment was made in relation to when it was spent and the amount of money involved.

If you received this money without it passing through the clutches of the CRU first it may be the solicitor handling your Compensation claim was negligent in not notifying the CRU and this may give you a reason to plead ignorance.
You are presumably being accused of INTENTIONAL DEPRIVATION OF CAPITAL.
It is assumed that Means tested benefit clients are aware of the allowed savings thresholds and therefore when disposing of large amounts of capital are doing so with the INTENTION of claiming benefits which they are not entitled to.
Depending on when you got the money and when you spent it I think if they are reasonably close you could honestly argue there was never any INTENTION TO DEPRIVE. It was reasonable for you to assume your solicitor would have settled any liability to the CRU before handing you the balance after his costs were deducted. Your intention in purchasing a new roof as yours had caved in and there was no electric and water came through and ruined everything was not to acquire benefits to which you were not entitled but to make essential repairs to your home to protect your assets such as they are.
If you simple repeat this mantra at every opportunity and take the matter to appeal I think you will succeed at appeal.

singlehouseholder · 23 April 2006 at 12:40AM

With regards to the Compensation Recovery Unit- when a claim for compensation is made the Compensators are LEGALLY OBLIGED to supply details to the CRU so that they can ascertain whether benefits paid are the result of an accident for which they are going to recieve compensation. The CRU provide a certificate of recoverable benefits to the compensator, so that they know how much money to pay back to the DWP. However, this is not always the case. Injured people, or compensators or solicitors often neglect t o provide the National Insurance Number- without which the dept cannot find out the benefit informaion. People provide incorrect information, again resulting problems for the DWP.
Its also worth noting that in many cases, solicitors have been known to settle compensation cases, then ask the dept for a review of the benefits. If the review goes in favour of the injured person, then the solicitor is refunded, not that the person who had the accident will see any of this money of course!!
In this case it isn't the DWP that are the robbing blighters- the money is ploughed back into the welfare state after all- NHS in particular- its the solicitors who are dealing in underhand tactics..

Fran · 23 April 2006 at 12:01PM

victoriav wrote:

.......The accident was about 3 years ago, I live alone, I eventually got dla (after 3 appeals and then additionally IS after 3 more appeals) This was fine, several dwp doctor visits too. I also got CT benefit. Along the way there have been lots of dss muck ups with my money, maladministration, etc , kept getting the regular checks asked to confirm, re-confirm, re-confirm, etc etc.

Did anyone help you with the appeals? When did you actually receive IS and CT Ben?

Then last week I was told I was being investigated for fraud, by the dwp,

Ok, you have been to CAB and some are better than others and some have more specialist facilities. Did they help you with your appeals? If so they will have all your details already. You need to act on this straight away and going back to CAB is your best option.

I kept all receipts of all work and still owe a few thousand as it didn't cover it which I will go to money lenders for - as usual - I know it wont be forthcoming from the social....

Please don't go down the road of money lenders. Perhaps you need some debt advice too? Ask at CAB if they can help with that too if that is the case.

They have stopped all money to me - I have nothing

You should contact DWP and find out exactly where you stand re benefits. You might have to start a new claim for IS/CTax Ben. Are they still paying DLA? Alternatively let CAB negotiate this for you so that you are sure what they are saying and where you stand.

a) If they say I must pay all benefits money back - during this time, then what did they expect me to live on all this time,

This is why you need to ask CAB to help.

b) Is there an upper limit of £16 thousand 'savings' allowed for IS
which is means tested in any case?- and I know that DLA isnt means tested.

IS and CTax Ben are means tested. Were you receiving Housing Benefit as well? The upper limit would depend on what it was for you when you put in the claim. Check with CAB.

c) Doesn't the 'savings' rule apply to the 'unemployed'? I am not the unemployed I am the disabled (though none of the money is left anyway)

The rule applies to Income Support and CTax Ben which are means tested benefits.

I have tried solicitors - none specialise in this subject where I am, and CAB is shortstaffed and not clued up with this either. So no joy there. Infact CAB helpfully said I would be looking at a prison sentence...

You need to get back to CAB. Regardless of whether CAB are short staffed or not, when they see you they should be giving you full attention. They have to reach certain standards in order to call themselves a CAB, so if you feel one advisor (for example) hasn't given you enough info or you don't understand, ask to see another one.

You must go back to CAB

Sorry about the bold, but it is essential that you get this sorted and CAB should be able to tell you where you stand. If there's anything you still don't understand I'm sure people will try to help you on here, but you need a "real" person onto it who knows all of your situation. GOOD LUCK.

victoriav · 26 April 2006 at 9:48AM

Thanks for replies here, especially TED, i am still trying to sort it out, you know how it is phones not answered, people out to lunch, aaarrgghhh!!

Fran,thanks for your reply, the CAB are unable to help (in my town) unfortunately. I don't want to cause a fuss by saying the person was not upto scratch, she was pleasant, but not able to deal with my query in a useful way, no doubt her strengths are in other subjects, it took several tries to even get in, ie you queue very early in the morning then just the first few get seen, the rest get 'sorry we are short staffed'....you then have to come back next day , same scenario, I got taken at 6am to get to the front in the end but people just aren't prepared to take me there at that time, on a regular basis, as no money for taxi's there and back would be about £15....and no guarantee I'd be seen....she did say too, the CAB adviser, (which I didn't take to heart) that she thought I looked like a chav and not to wear bling as it made me look 'dodgy' - and give people the wrong impression...I didn't tell her it was fake costume jewellery, its just big and chunky.... perhaps she thought I looked like a gangster.. well all of my appeals, I won not with help from CAB ever.

Sorry I digress, my question is, the company (not solicitors but an independent help body) who represented me made a charge in total around £800-£900) each time for appeals, letters, etc, they were very very good, I don't have an issue with them.. however, now I would like to know how to recover the money I paid to them from the DWP, being as how I was entitled to the benefits all along, and some period of time was lost and could not be counted due to time scales - which is unfair. Basically what I am saying here is that:

I qualified for benefits
I was denied them
I had to seek good advice (not easy)
I had to get someone to represent me
I won all appeals
I was invoiced for the help provided to me

so then:-

All along I was eligible for benefits but denied them, one way or another the DWP tried to deny it, in the end it was proved I was entitled to benefits, therefore, someone ain't doing their job properly and I am out of pocket and this should never have arisen... so how to get my fee's refunded by the DWP?

Or is that a pink pig flying past my window.....

Fran · 26 April 2006 at 11:24AM

What is happening about the fraud investigation?

Sorry I don't think you've got a chance of getting that money back as you could have gone for free advice to CAB for example. (But check this out.)

money from accident

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