Parking Appeal From Smart Parking Rejected

KayleighB94 · 18 September 2016 at 12:37PM

Hi, so within a week, i had two parking "Charges" From Smart Parking. The amount was quite high! £100 Reduced to £60 if paid before hand,
I apparently overstayed for 12 minutes on one and 16 minutes on the other.
One of my letters i didnt recieve until 20 days after the offence, and in both letters i stated £60 was not a justifiable amount for such a short amount of time.
Is there anything i can do now? Or should i just give up and pay that stupid amount of money?
It was a free Carpark (2 hours Free) and there was no option to pay for extra time either

Thanks in Advance.

beamerguy · 18 September 2016 at 1:27PM

KayleighB94 wrote: »

Hi, so within a week, i had two parking "Charges" From Smart Parking. The amount was quite high! £100 Reduced to £60 if paid before hand,
I apparently overstayed for 12 minutes on one and 16 minutes on the other.
One of my letters i didnt recieve until 20 days after the offence, and in both letters i stated £60 was not a justifiable amount for such a short amount of time.
Is there anything i can do now? Or should i just give up and pay that stupid amount of money?
It was a free Carpark (2 hours Free) and there was no option to pay for extra time either

Thanks in Advance.

Was this a ticket on the car or a notice sent by post ?

Smart Parking have not got a clean history and were recently sacked by Asda and a few other places.
They are referred to as "not so smart" as they are not.

Was this a retail site and were you shopping, if so, with who and do you keep receipts.

They will reject your appeal, the only objective they have is to rob you of money

From this moment on, you do not make any contact with Smart.
Did you appeal as keeper or driver

Carthesis · 19 September 2016 at 8:23AM

6. The Creditor or its agent must have made application to the DVLA for your name and address either

NOT EARLIER than 28 days after the vehicle was parked (where a Notice to Driver was issued); or
NOT LATER than 14 days after the vehicle was parked (where a Notice to Driver was not issued)

Notice to Keeper

A Notice to Keeper can be served by ordinary post and the Protection of Freedoms Act requires that the Notice, to be valid, must be delivered either

(Where a notice to driver (parking ticket) has been served) Not earlier than 28 days after, nor more than 56 days after, the service of that notice to driver; or
(Where no notice to driver has been served (e.g ANPR is used)) Not later than 14 days after the vehicle was parked

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

Take particular note of the dates. If it's a Notice to Keeper, then it's got to come 28 days after a Notice to Driver (if they know who the driver is - i.e. a windscreen ticket). If it's ANPR, they've only got 14 days to get an NtK to you. Hopefully you've still got the first letter showing the service of the NtK was after that 14 day period?

KayleighB94 · 19 September 2016 at 9:46AM

Hi,
Its a retail park, with the main shop being waitrose, then there where a few other stores, i.e. Costa coffee etc etc
I havent got any reciepts as i did look for them,
and it was sent by post. It was in my Company Van, so they had a letter to them and they passed it on to me. However in the letters i didn't admit it was me that was driving.
Thanks for your replies!

Coupon-mad · 19 September 2016 at 9:14PM

Do you mean you have appealed as the 'lessee' day to day person responsible for the car (i.e. the keeper) and now have two POPLA codes?

If at POPLA stage just search the forum for 'Smart POPLA' and also read and copy the relevant recent POPLA appeal point templates I've added to 'POPLA Decisions' this past week.

Show us your draft POPLA appeals if that's the stage you are at but ONLY after reading ours first!

KayleighB94 · 20 September 2016 at 12:59PM

So i do have grounds to protest?
I went back to the carpark yesterday, and on most of the signs it just says Max 2 hour stay please see sings. I had to walk around the whole carpark to find the detailed signs, as i didnt see them when i got both fines?
Just what grounds can i argue on? xx

Coupon-mad · 20 September 2016 at 1:13PM

We always win v Smart...they can't hold the hirer/lessee or keeper liable so (as long as you did NOT appeal as 'driver') you win on the usual grounds of no keeper/hirer liability if you argue it well for POPLA, hence why you search.

Also see the template POPLA appeal points I added to 'POPLA Decisions' thread at the top of the forum last week. Several will be for your case, just copy them and show us your draft.

Castle · 20 September 2016 at 1:38PM

KayleighB94 wrote: »

So i do have grounds to protest?
I went back to the carpark yesterday, and on most of the signs it just says Max 2 hour stay please see sings. I had to walk around the whole carpark to find the detailed signs, as i didnt see them when i got both fines?
Just what grounds can i argue on? xx

Are there any signs which say 2 hours parking anywhere?

Carthesis · 20 September 2016 at 2:06PM

I'd say you've got grounds for argument.

There have been several cases on here where it has been pointed out that time spent driving round looking for a parking space is CATEGORICALLY NOT TO BE CLASSED AS PARKING. Castle is suggesting there could arguably be a distinction on the signage between "stay" and "parking" I think (apologies if I'm misrepresenting you or putting words in your mouth Castle!), but I'd argue that when talking about a car park that only provides one service - i.e. parking your car - then the distinction is a moot point.

Secondly, once you pull out of your space, you're meant to be allowed a "grace period" (normally defined as 10 mins or so). It wouldn't be an unreasonable argument to suggest a ten minute grace period at the "start" of parking (which would be correctly defined as when you turn your engine off in a space and leave the vehicle). Therefore, an overstay of less than 20 minutes shouldn't result in any kind of breach of T&Cs.

As C-M says though, if the forum is generally successful at POPLA stage on grounds of Keeper Liability, just use that. You may choose to add on the notes about the overstay not exceeding the recommended grace periods for pre- and post-parking just to make your point though.

Sadly, post-Beavis, the Supreme Court has encouraged PPCs to charge people for minor infractions at a rate up to £100 because they think that's a "fair" way to ensure car parks are managed and people aren't taking the proverbial. Most honest people I think would agree that landowners should be able to stop people having their pants down, but sadly PPCs choose to do it in an extremely unfair way. How anyone can consider a £100 charge for being 12 minutes late going past an ANPR camera in an arbitrary place in a car park as "fair" is beyond me.

Castle · 20 September 2016 at 2:28PM

Carthesis;

I was going for section 69 (1) of the 2015 Consumer Rights Act, namely:-
"If a term in a consumer contract, or a consumer notice, could have different meanings, the meaning that is most favourable to the consumer is to prevail."

Of course stay could also mean Parked; but, normally there's a sign which also says Parking on it.

KayleighB94 · 23 October 2016 at 11:46AM

I forgot to mention that i work at the place i was parked. I left a note for them explaining that i had been fined, and they said they are going to contact the Parking Eye company to sort it out, so my vehicle can be parked there. However while im waiting for this ive now had two letters come through from DRP (Debt recovery plus) for £160 - So its now £320 they want. I cant aford this?! Im a cleaner for crying out loud. Any help would be great. Ill be calling the debt company tomorrow but what do i do?

Parking Appeal From Smart Parking Rejected

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