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MSE News: 'Family tax': Dad's outrage as Ryanair tries to seat 3yo away from family
Comments
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Yes, I know the answer too. There are two reasons:In that case why has nobody advised the family in the article to take the airline/check-in staff/cabin crew to court for exposing them to 'risks to their health or safety'?
It's OK, I think I know the answer. :rotfl:- Ryanair eventually seated them together.
- The family could take action only if it suffered a loss or injury. Public authorities take action over health and safety in respect of potential injuries. We don't know what action public authorities are taking or contemplating in light of the recent publicity on this issue.
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In that case why has nobody advised the family in the article to take the airline/check-in staff/cabin crew to court for exposing them to 'risks to their health or safety'?
It's OK, I think I know the answer. :rotfl:
Because there needs to be a loss/injury/health consequence in order for that to happen. You misunderstand how our laws work.
It would need enforcement action from either a HSE inspector or an Environmental Health Officer to bring about improvement or prohibition orders based on what we've said. I can't see any reason why either of these people wouldn't be able to step in and do this either. The parents should call them.0 -
That's not a like-for-like comparison. On buses, trains and the Tube, there is no allocated seating. Passengers are free to move around and do not have to remain in their seat with a seatbelt. You're clutching at straws here in your defence of Ryanair's unreasonable practice.
Not if we take your quote below into consideration. You cannot use the argument in one instance and refuse it in another.
Allocated seating is only used to expedite embarkation/disembarkation to save Ryanair money, not as a health and safety measure. It wasn't that long ago that there was no allocated seating on Ryanair or Easyjet flights, no different to a bus or train.
The act of seating a child away from their parent is not placing them in immediate danger, which is what the law is there to prevent. There is only a very small % risk of danger IF other incidents, beyond control of the airline, occur.
If you want to apply that rule to airline seating you have to apply it to every other mode of transport and make guarantees that no child will ever be parted from their parent.Yes, specifically Section 3(1) of the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, which states:"It shall be the duty of every employer to conduct his undertaking in such a way as to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that persons not in his employment who may be affected thereby are not thereby exposed to risks to their health or safety."Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear0 -
Because there needs to be a loss/injury/health consequence in order for that to happen. You misunderstand how our laws work.
It would need enforcement action from either a HSE inspector or an Environmental Health Officer to bring about improvement or prohibition orders based on what we've said. I can't see any reason why either of these people wouldn't be able to step in and do this either. The parents should call them.
I wonder why that has never happened.Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear0 -
That does not answer the question I asked - which was:Because you asked a question that I had answered 20 times already
Yes, I think it is clearly breaching health and safety laws.
I'm not interested in what you 'think', i'm interested in what the law says.So are you saying that airlines who seat children away from their parent are breaking the law?0 -
You're making incorrect assumptions.
I don't assume that buying a flight entitles me to anything other than a seat on the plane.
No luggage, no meals, no entitlement to sit with anyone else.
I'm happy with this argument, as I think this is fundamental to if there is a problem or not.
I totally disagree, but at least it's a debatable point.
Separating an adult from their child is removing the legal responsibility that parent has over the child. I'm of the opinion that that isn't subject to 'entitlement' - I think it's a human right.0 -
peachyprice wrote: »I wonder why that has never happened.
Because it only came into the news recently? Can you tell me for a fact that it isn't happening?0 -
So - as long as there is no loss/inury/health consequence - airlines are not breaking the law then.Because there needs to be a loss/injury/health consequence in order for that to happen. You misunderstand how our laws work.
Maybe the parents are more interested in getting their 15 minutes of fame than ensuring airlines 'bring about improvement or prohibition orders'.It would need enforcement action from either a HSE inspector or an Environmental Health Officer to bring about improvement or prohibition orders based on what we've said. I can't see any reason why either of these people wouldn't be able to step in and do this either. The parents should call them.
As MSE are so against this optional extra that they refer to it as a 'family tax' and are 'demanding' (later downgraded to 'calling for') it be scapped, I wonder why they don't go down the route of bringing it to the attention of a HSE inspector or Environmental Health Officer.
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That does not answer the question I asked - which was:
I'm not interested in what you 'think', i'm interested in what the law says.
Are you being purposefully obtuse? No one can say how the law is applied to a specific situation until a test is put through the courts.
So, in my professional and well trained opinion, yes - it breaches the law.
Unless I'm mistaken, no one else in this thread include yourself has offered any more advanced a professional opinion. I'm a trained health and safety officer, and I'm very confident in my work.0
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